no religions? = a better world?

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Dec 24, 2006, 09:14 PM
exderz

Re: no religions? = a better world?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toecutter

Religion is for the fools who cannot take responsibility for their actions and those who cannot be trusted with the freedom they think they deserve. If one did not have religion, for example, all the idiots who, once they realize there is no God to keep them in line, would simply violate every form of law known to man, from those developed to help govern society all the way to the biggies that come from morality (such as murder, etc).

Simply put, there ARE humans that are more equal than others. They are the ones who can reason and still function with a strict set of laws, knowing only they can hold themselves accountable for their actions. The remainder can only be controlled through a caste system or religion.

However, I favor the third alternative: government controlled breeding based on an individual's heredity.

chill dude....i agree and disagree with you, because if you don't believe god than here is a question who made this world...people believing in god just because of this question. and i also agree that people shouldn't ask god of what they should do, they should do what is meant to be, follow their heart stuff like that.
Dec 25, 2006, 12:50 AM
Toecutter

Re: no religions? = a better world?

Quote:

Originally Posted by exderz

chill dude....i agree and disagree with you, because if you don't believe god than here is a question who made this world...people believing in god just because of this question. and i also agree that people shouldn't ask god of what they should do, they should do what is meant to be, follow their heart stuff like that.

It has already been proven the Big Bang did occur (microwave radiation evenly spread about the universe, as well as Edwin Hubble's observations of the expanding universe), though the action which initiated it is still in question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chubz

Er......I gotta say that religion in itself isn't supposed to be some sort of restrictive entity to control actions (though once it becomes a political device it can be), but rather it is a way of explaining the world, like what Arrianna said, and what Silverskater was saying as it being a form of science, and to bring a sense of order.

To compare religion to science is, for lack of a better word, blasphemy. The only commonality with science and religion is that they both start with two strings of information: what is known, and what is unknown.

Science has a valid approach of determining the unknown through the use of known facts. Religion does not. Instead, religion involves making assumptions with no means to prove said assumptions. Can you honestly point to something OTHER than rhetoric to give you an answer for how the Earth, or the universe, for that matter, were created? What about souls? How can you define their existence, or even test their existence? How about evolution? There's plenty of evidence to support the fact of evolution, but all evidence to support the Old Testament fails (even Noah's Ark has been discovered to be an ancient Sumerian story related to a barge/ferry operator that was carrying a small quantity of livestock during a flash flood, not as the Biblical account records it).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chubz

You're post is more of a question of man's nature than it is of religion, because you're implying the only thing keeping people from breaking laws is the idea of a 'God,' and that everyone is implicitly evil if not for religion (yet crimes are committed every day, and many people in the world are not religious yet don't commit crimes).

In effect, you're making it sound like religion was created (and governs everyone) by itself, when in fact religion is controlled by the people, not the other way around.

That is not what I said. I have stated that INTELLIGENCE drives men to follow laws. Laws are the constructs of men, from the basic morality we derive from not wanting to be treated a certain way, to the laws we develop to support the government we have constructed.

When intelligence is lacking, an individual can only be controlled by an external force, a source of retribution for not behaving to the code they cannot comprehend or choose not to follow. Law enforcement has been that tool to an extent, but in places where no law is available, religion has been the primary tool.

It is also the tool in ensuring the survival of its followers, hence the practice of only eating kosher meats (meats that would not spoil in poor storage conditions in desert environments, or from animals who contract disease that passes easily from one species to another-such as H5N1).

Notice these laws were not truly derived from God's will, but simply the observation of the priests which WROTE God's law, practicing a crude form of the scientific method.

I did not say that religion governs itself. However, I am referring to religion as an individual entity because it is-the concept of religion is a separate, unique idea that is unrelated to anything man has ever created before. You cannot link religion to explain effectively how a Ford Mustang's 351 Cleveland engine produces torque, nor can you use religion to explain why the seasons change (not anymore, at least, since only a small percentage of the Earth's population don't believe the Earth revolves around the sun on an uneven axis).

The scientific method, however, can be tied into everything, and in fact, is simply a way to express the inherent rational processes of the human mind as a separate entity, or an alias if you will.
Dec 25, 2006, 10:46 PM
Arrianna

Re: no religions? = a better world?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toecutter

To compare religion to science is, for lack of a better word, blasphemy. The only commonality with science and religion is that they both start with two strings of information: what is known, and what is unknown.

Thereby proving that science can become a religion. The instant something becomes unquestionable it becomes a matter of faith over knowledge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toecutter

Science has a valid approach of determining the unknown through the use of known facts. Religion does not.

False. Do you really think the scientific method didn't exist until the last few centuries? All throughout the scriptures it tells you to test it and see what the results are. Forming hypothesis, testing them, and comparing results is not a new idea but rather a very old one. Just because you personally don't know the facts involved does not mean they don't exist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toecutter

That is not what I said. I have stated that INTELLIGENCE drives men to follow laws. Laws are the constructs of men, from the basic morality we derive from not wanting to be treated a certain way, to the laws we develop to support the government we have constructed.

According to those who do not believe in God so is religion for exactly the same purpose. Both laws of government and laws of religion fulfill the same purpose, basic morals and support. To state a higher claim of intelligence of one over the other only shows the basis of your belief structure rather then a fact of others intelligence.

Or in other words, you sir worship science.
Dec 25, 2006, 11:20 PM
JefferyXie

Re: no religions? = a better world?

Religion doesn't have a valid approach?Jeez Toecutter,you remind me of my science teacher at school.Do you think really that science explains everything that mankind does not know?No.Not entirely.If you read in the some books,religion was the first thing that was dominate to describing the infinite mysteries until science prevailed in about the 1400s to 1500s which made early religious beliefs false in many ways showing that religions has its flaws.Then you should conclude that science,despite overwhelming evidence which provides humans with vast knowledge of this universe has flaws as well.Also it talks mainly and perhaps only of the physical aspect of Earth.Religions talks of the "spiritual" aspect and an educated person like you should know that there are many people that values that aspect.By believing in a religion,it helps these people to follow the laws and morals of society to become better people.Toecutter,I respect your opinion though and find it quite fascinating.
Dec 26, 2006, 12:02 AM
Patrick Chan

Re: no religions? = a better world?

for those without a religion, i would like to see their faces on their death bed. u know, it'll be like a drowning man clutching for a straw!
Dec 26, 2006, 04:10 AM
Esperologist

Re: no religions? = a better world?

Well, it all depends.
It is my belief that if all religions were to be removed from this world, that what is known as anarchy would occur.

I would however like to see all religions aside from what I believe removed from the world... but that can't happen. (I'd label what I believe, but any label I give it won't work... even describing it would bring up the wrong idea in this situation.)

The thing is, so many people would like to just see Christianity removed from the world... and according to my beliefs, it'll one day happen. I won't be here to see it, since I'd be one of the ones removed for Christianity to be removed.

Now, there are several religions out there that believe it is their purpose to remove other religions via force. That doesn't work... all it does is prove that that religion doesn't think it is good enough to win over the ones it kills.

Now, as for being religious. I don't consider myself to be very religious.
If someone were to follow me around all day, they would probably start thinking I'm some nice guy or something. They wouldn't call me a fanatic or anything. However, I do occasionaly get preachy... but that is reserved for situations like this. Sorry about being preachy here, lol.
Dec 26, 2006, 05:33 AM
exderz

Re: no religions? = a better world?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toecutter

It has already been proven the Big Bang did occur (microwave radiation evenly spread about the universe, as well as Edwin Hubble's observations of the expanding universe), though the action which initiated it is still in question..

here is a question who made that big bang, and how did it happen, and what was there before.....ANd don't you ever wonder about these stuff.?
Dec 26, 2006, 05:50 AM
deftbeat

Re: no religions? = a better world?

i can't imagine a world without religion, though there are unwanted things happening now on our environment which concerns about religion. how can a person measure morality without religion? religion teaches morality, the standards of being in the state of rightfullness. i think the real problem here is people who only think of theirselves and only wants power. god encourage us to do what is right but still he's so kind. it's still your choice if you want to follow right? IMO:p1:

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