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Thread: Obligatory Marijuana Debate. Legalize or No?

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    Re: Obligatory Marijuana Debate. Legalize or No?

    Wow, what a pretty green picture! lol just kidding.

    I am not going to lie, you guys have some really good points that I can't argue with.

    I just feel like we get enough money from the other two legal drugs, and that we don't really need to get more money from anymore of it. It prolly would boost the economy, however it doesn't change the fact that its not good for anyone to use. And it smells really bad. Like I already hate going to a bar, resturant, etc, and being sufficated in cigarette smoke. I can only image what the future would be like if they legalized pot. I feel like it would still be a leading factor in ruining some people lives, and that we shouldn't sell out. Maybe I have just had some bad experiences with people on pot. But whatever, its not legal where I am at, so am happy.

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    Re: Obligatory Marijuana Debate. Legalize or No?

    Quote Originally Posted by lapislazuli View Post
    I believe that you've seen lives ruined by pot, however just think of how many lives have been ruined by alcohol. Alcohol is nothing better than pot, still it's allowed everywhere, ruining lives. One heard enough of the drunken dad who beats up his wife or children.
    Also in the case you've stated, I don't think pot was the sole reason that she ended up having a life like that. But it definitely is a factor that led to it.
    Pot alone doesn't destroy ones life it's either worse drugs, or a combination like alcohol and marijuana.
    As to whether or not allow pot, I don't care that much. Of course, it's harmful but so is alcohol or smoking. Generally I'd say away with everything damaging however history showed us that this option doesn't work.

    I also know people who are able to do their things even though they are smoking pot regularly. They had it though indeed for some time, bad grades in school and whatnot, however this definitely is also alcohol related.

    Pot really doesn't destroy lives, what happens to people when they are caught and sent to jail/ fined is. Pot isn't like alcohol. or Crack or any other horrible drug. And people really don't hallucinate from it (if you think they do, thats probably LSD or some other concoction.)

    I say make it legal, tax it, make money off it. People do all the time, they even make money about doing it. So just do it.

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    Re: Obligatory Marijuana Debate. Legalize or No?

    If the thread is "obligatory" KenX it is just because no one has made the thread for you to have your yearly argument for legalization.



    Since we have done this dance before shall I open with the usual myths?

    1. Marijuana use has no effect on future use of other drugs: False
    Early marijuana use increases risk of drug and alcohol problems later in life
    "Some 46 percent reported that they later abused or became dependent upon marijuana, and 43 percent had become alcohol dependent.

    The early marijuana users also used other drugs at higher rates, including cocaine and other stimulants (48 percent) heroin and other opioids (14 percent) and hallucinogens (35 percent)."
    (Early being younger then 17.)
    Yes aceman, I checked the recent study but I found the summery to not necessarily say what they claimed.
    RESULTS: Twenty-eight (22.4&#37 of the participants who used marijuana did not exhibit the gateway sequence, thereby demonstrating that this pattern is not invariant in drug-using youths. Among youths who did exhibit the gateway pattern, only delinquency was more strongly related to marijuana use than licit drug use. Specific risk factors associated with transition from licit to illicit drugs were not revealed.
    ie. 77.6% of them did follow the gateway pattern and they were unable to revel specific risk factors for the transition. In other words they proved nothing.


    2. There have never been recorded incidents of death from marijuana use (cancer, car accident, overdose, etc): Misleading

    There has never been a "record" of it because no one has tried to until recently. The recent study on driving found it to be a "bad idea", the one on cancer indefinite, overdosing causes other serious issues. I can claim all kinds of things to be true under that reasoning. "There is no conclusive study so it's harmless." Riiiiight...
    NIDA - Research Report Series - Marijuana Abuse
    "Cancer of the respiratory tract and lungs may also be promoted by marijuana smoke.4 A study comparing 173 cancer patients and 176 healthy individuals produced strong evidence that smoking marijuana increases the likelihood of developing cancer of the head or neck, and that the more marijuana smoked, the greater the increase.17 A statistical analysis of the data suggested that marijuana smoking doubled or tripled the risk of these cancers.

    Marijuana has the potential to promote cancer of the lungs and other parts of the respiratory tract because it contains irritants and carcinogens.40 In fact, marijuana smoke contains 50 percent to 70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does tobacco smoke.41 It also produces high levels of an enzyme that converts certain hydrocarbons into their carcinogenic form, levels that may accelerate the changes that ultimately produce malignant cells.42 Marijuana users usually inhale more deeply and hold their breath longer than tobacco smokers do, which increases the lungs' exposure to carcinogenic smoke. These facts suggest that, puff for puff, smoking marijuana may increase the risk of cancer more than smoking tobacco does."

    3. There is no effect on regular users of marijuana, they are just like everyone else: False
    Marijuana - InfoFacts - NIDA
    Effects on Daily Life
    Research clearly demonstrates that marijuana has the potential to cause problems in daily life or make a person’s existing problems worse. In one study, heavy marijuana abusers reported that the drug impaired several important measures of life achievement including physical and mental health, cognitive abilities, social life, and career status.11 Several studies associate workers’ marijuana smoking with increased absences, tardiness, accidents, workers’ compensation claims, and job turnover.

    4. It is impossible to OD on marijuana: False
    o·ver·dose
    n.

    An excessive dose, especially of a narcotic.


    NIDA - Research Report Series - Marijuana Abuse
    "Marijuana users who have taken high doses of the drug may experience acute toxic psychosis, which includes hallucinations, delusions, and depersonalization - a loss of the sense of personal identity, or self-recognition.10,15 Although the specific causes of these symptoms remain unknown, they appear to occur more frequently when a high dose of cannabis is consumed in food or drink rather than smoked."
    I have a friend who did this in high school and spent 2 days strapped to a hospital bed because of it.


    5. Marijuana isn't a hallucinogenic. People who hallucinated must have taken something else: False

    See above.
    Hallucinogenic Effects of Marijuana as Currently Used -- KEELER et al. 128 (2): 213 -- Am J Psychiatry
    "A questionnaire study of 42 randomly selected young men who used marijuana revealed that about 90 percent had experienced minor changes in perception (seeing colors or objects as more intense); about half had experienced major perceptual changes (hallucinating colors or designs); and about 40 percent had experienced hallucinogenic ideation. The authors conclude that marijuana, as used by the population studied, is a hallucinogen."
    The results of a poll on a forum for those who use marijuana showed that over 55% of them had hallucinated from smoking marijuana.


    6. Marijuana isn't addictive: False
    Marijuana is frequently referred to as the most psychologically addicting drug there is. Addiction to marijuana stunts emotional and psychological growth and effects the users ability to handle stress. It is also physically addicting now thanks to dealers breeding it for strength.
    The most ironic part about marijuana being legalized to casual use in Canada is that the most potent/addicting cannabis comes from there.


    7. There is no long term effect of using marijuana, it is safe: False
    Marijuana | Marijuana Addiction and Marijuana Effects
    "A number of studies have shown an association between chronic marijuana use and increased rates of anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation, and schizophrenia."
    And speaking of schizophrenia lets not forget the connection found between cannabis use and the onset of schizophrenia. Yes, it can trigger it and cause a lifelong problem.
    8. Lastly and my favorite, marijuana needs to be legalized so it can be used for medical purposes: False

    A drug does not have to be legalized to the general public to be used for medical purposes it just has to prove to the appropriate board that it is a legitimate use and won't harm those using it. You cannot buy morphine over the counter after all but any qualified medical practitioner can. If it isn't legalized then it hasn't been proven. Want that to change? Support the ongoing research on the subject.
    Marijuana Addiction, Abuse and Treatment
    "Marijuana is a Schedule I substance under the Controlled Substances Act. Schedule I drugs are classified as having a high potential for abuse, no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States, and a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision."
    Marinol - the Legal Medical Use for the Marijuana Plant



    When you get down to it marijuana is a drug. Unless you are also prepared to legalize all other prescription drugs to over the counter and allow people to take whatever they want whenever they want the arguments for legalizing marijuana have no foundation.

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    Re: Obligatory Marijuana Debate. Legalize or No?

    Quote Originally Posted by aceman67 View Post
    yes, but if its legalized, those fees (Which the government first had to pay, not to mention the salaries of the Judge, Prosecutor, Court recorder, Bailiff, and others that were involved) would never have to be paid.

    The government would make money if it legalizes it. At the moment, the government is spending more money then it gets back, which is not fiscally smart.
    I have a ?, is pot legal in canada?, you say that half the population (canada) wants pot to be legal so I was wondering if it is because I don't know what your laws are over their. As for the whole legalize pot in the us, the though of legalization will just rid us of the legal system on pot is invalid because then the FDA will have to set in regu. and tell the people who can use it and then set up a age limit, then the cops will have to follow new laws. and so on and so on. In the end we would still spend the same or even more because then you will have to factor in you special interest groups and what they want the gov't to do about pot. so how will that be fiscally sound to aid the american economy, maybe we should regulate Smack while we are at it and put that in vending machines like in futurama ().

    Quote Originally Posted by KenX View Post
    It's already a proven fact that the war on drugs is a complete failure. Drug cartels of Mexico, Columbia, Cuba, Africa, Europe, and any other place in the world ship Millions of pounds of narcotics UNDETECTED into the united states.

    You CANNOT say that it is good for this nation to keep funding money on a cause that they can never control. Unless this Substance become legal, then there would be no profiteering for Cartels.

    Marijuana is more readily available in the United states than cigarettes. Anyone can get their hands on it. SO if it were legalized there would be procedures to buying it. Which mean it wouldn't be readily available to young people.

    *removed for your own protection, as well as AnimeOnline's* ~Aceman67
    Yes, but people still abuse the system, even if pot is legal for medical means like in calif. or such people find loop holes to abuse it, as for the thing with Mexico, they regulated it their and their are Cartels in Mexico running it still, it is legal (thanks to Vicente Fox) but yet the gov't can't control it, and don't use the excuse because it goes to the US because even if we legalized it they will still send drugs here, you guys make it sound like a assumption that once it is legalized the drugs will stop following and everything will be fine, it won't, they will find a way new way to stay in business no matter what, their is always smack to sell.

    I don't think that it would be wise to just legalize pot because as our gov't has shown in the past that they can't control these types very well (even when legal), which is why it will just cause more gov't, and more dollars to legalize it, I think that med. pot should be legal to those that really need it, not to those who use it for rec. just to past time, I don't care if people want to use it, I just don't want my Tax dollars to go into it when it should go to the schools, because like I said it will cause more cons then pros if it was ever legalized, otherwise every country in the world would have legalized pot by now, but I don't see that ever happening anytime soon.

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    Re: Obligatory Marijuana Debate. Legalize or No?

    alot of you people dont understand though pot will most likely be legalized not the government wants it to be but still it doesnt matter our country (america) is in so much of a bind that they need the tax on weed if they dont do it then it just makes it harder for our government to get outta debt and they wont work any harder than they have to they know that lots of kids smoke pot but they would have alot less people in jail for smoking pot or having it when their car is searched so tell me wouldnt it be easier on our government to legalize? i say it doesnt matter really what we say here its most likely going to be legalized

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    Re: Obligatory Marijuana Debate. Legalize or No?

    When what you do, causes harm to others... is when a law should come into play.

    I think MOST drugs should be legalized.

    I am a firm believer in ones right to do with their body what they chose. To medicate themselves with whatever they chose.

    The line drawn, is when what you do with yourself and your body.... Starts to spill over into the lives of your friends, family, neighbors.... ect.

    Drugs that are dangerous to produce should not be legalized. Their creation... in and of itself... could kill. And not just the person making them ... (If you haven't figured it out... its meth Im talking about)

    No one can refute that most drugs have a place.... they've continue to have a place in medicine. All sorts of pharmaceutical narcotics mimic the effects of street drugs. Heck, sometimes equally as addictive, but legal phamacuticals are prescribed to ween people off of street drugs. BECAUSE ADDICTION IS A-OK, AS LONG AS ITS ADDICTION TO SOMETHING THE GOVERNMENT CAN PROFIT FROM! Even nicotine is pharmaceutical. I wish I could get a THC inhaler when I attempt to quit smoking pot. But no... tobacco users get all the love..lol

    I wont give the everything in moderation spiel. Frankly becuase it isn't true. Somethings shouldn't be used in moderation. Heroin, for example, should only be used in when in pain. Because the affect of the drug can be somewhat incapacitating, and cause lapses of judgemnt. Moderate use of heroin, in most cases would cause addiction. Everything has its exceptions though... My mother used heroin for years in a faulty marriage (before she had children). When the marriage was over..so was the heroin. You'd never even think it to look at her. Shes a nurse (has been for over 20 years now), and handles mood altering meds all the time... Seems to have no addiction whatsoever. I guess co-dependency was really her drug of choice... not heroin.

    I think the only way one should get penalized for drug use is if reported by family, friends, or neighbors. And the ABUSE of the drug should be dealt with. Anyone who has gotten in trouble for illegal drug use, knows that LEVELS of toxins can be determined by urine samples, blood draws, hair folicle testing...ect. So if if HIGH levels are found, AND if the person is assesed and determined that their use is causeing harm to others. The place to go... would be inpatient chemical dependency treatment (If its THAT bad). NOT JAIL. Drug addicts don't belong in jail simply for being addicted.... OH and this should apply to tobacco use as well. Why does it seem that tobacco use is exempt from Chemical dependency treatment, when it it one of the most dangerous, and highly abused chemicals?!?!?

    I am a marijuana addict. One of few people pot smokers you'll find who would admit to a dependency. I don't believe I abuse it though. However, my boby, my psyche, my brain chemistry... it has all adjusted to regular pot use. Much like a person who gets headaches without coffee. I get a little anxious after a while of not smoking. But I have gone long periods without it. WITH LOTS OF EFFORT. My dependency on marijuana causes little to no harm to my friends, family, or neighbors.


    @ Arrianna
    I KNOW marijuana is addictive (just not so much physically). I think its label of "gateway" is a bit of a misconception. Not that its totally untrue, But do look at the circumstances... (even in that article you submitted). First of all... a young person who wants to rebel... is going to find a way to do it. I think applying a study to youth already creates a bias. Saying a kid who smokes pot prior to the age of 17 is more likely to use alcohol and other drugs is probably true... but NOT because they smoked pot. Its because the type of kid who is doing drugs so young... is going to want to do more. What I am suggesting is its a personality and circumstancial issue... not a chemical one. Just like a person who would do something illegal (like smoke pot)... maybe the type to do other illegal things.... like other illegal street drugs, or criminal activity. But that doesn't mean those who smoke pot are more likely to be criminals. (Even though technically smoking pot MAKES you criminal here in the US).
    Last edited by Peach_follows; May 12, 2009 at 05:57 AM.
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    Re: Obligatory Marijuana Debate. Legalize or No?

    1. I agree with the above statements from Arianna. (who argues when facts are laid down in front of you?)

    2. You have to factor in who's taking the drug.

    Psychologically, if someone has an 'addictive personality', then that's what normally leads to taking the other drugs. Pot is the 'gateway', but the subconscious pattern in genetics is the key to it.
    (History of Drug Use, Professor Lewis Ph.D, Cal State)

    If you look at the majority of hard core drug users, (Crack, Cocaine, Heroin), most of them have a history in the family of drug use. Whether it be alcohol, Pot, nicotine, or anything.

    Many have been abused, in some way shape or form.

    Basically, if someone has an addictive personality, then normally they are the ones that use pot as the gateway drug. (not everyone, but a good majority) The issues are abuse, family history, and previous shown occurrences of addiction.
    1. Abuse.
    This could be physical, verbal, sexual, or drug/alcohol.
    For sexual this is especially seen with people who have seen or been involved with their mother and/or father sexually. (i.e. Watch their mother bring men home. Or have been sexually abused.) But also includes been molested, raped or any form of sexual abuse.
    The victim uses this as a way of coping, and a comfort. They be come addicted because they can't live without this 'comfort'. Drugs make them numb, or destroy the feelings completely in their mind.

    2. Family History.
    There is a genetic tie in the pattern of substance abuse. Many drug users have a genetic history of drugs use. Either their parents did it, grandparents, siblings, etc.
    Many have seen them do it, and take it as something either 'adult' to do. Or they see it as someway to cope with daily life, as they witnessed their parents do.

    3. Previous shown addictions.
    Addictions aren't only to drugs. Many video game users state they are 'addicted', but this is a misinterpretation.
    Anything that causes the endorphin release(anything that is joyful, and makes you feel happy while doing it), can be addictive to the point of obsession to someone with the addictive personality.
    This can be seen if someone has shown that they do the certain action in access, cannot stop by themselves, and want to do it more and more.

    None of these are an excuse for drug use, but they are a lot of the causes.
    And I know not everyone with a drug problem has these issues, but many of them do.

    But anyway, I am with the statement that it is your body, do what you want with it. That's coming from someone who lost their father to access drug use.

    I see no harm to anyone else if you sit in your room and smoke weed once in a while. Its what leads to other things that screws it all up. (people trying to drive, go to school, work, addictions, gateways to other drugs, etc.).

    Like cigarettes, it's your body. And cigarettes and alcohol are legal, yet they can inflict more harm than marijauna.

    I believe that this may be one of the issues that is never going to be fully settled in the US.(like abortion, and gay marriage).

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    Re: Obligatory Marijuana Debate. Legalize or No?

    Isn't this the umpteenth thread of the same subject?
    I smoke weed all day, every day............And I'm sick of this thread being repeated all the time.

    Go make a thread on Meth or something.

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