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Thread: Are prayers an illusion?

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    Banned Rave_Grip may be famous one day Rave_Grip may be famous one day Rave_Grip's Avatar
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    Are prayers an illusion?

    YouTube - The best optical illusion in the world!

    Look at the video, regardless of your religion and intelligence. Then read the following comments, which were made after watching the video.

    very convincing, kinda sad though. i agree, prayers won't get you what you want, but they are nice ways of having an inner dialogue with yourself (though in prayer the person would call that inner dialogue a chat with God). prayer is simply a way to sort your problems out in your head. of course prayer won't cure your relative's cancer, but by thinking about it for a while in prayer, you just might feel a little bit better about the whole situation.
    This would be a wonderful disprovement of god, if christians only belief on in god was based on our belief that his existance is solely based upon his giving us what we want, but the fact is that that isn't true. nobody said that prayer changes anything in god's predetermined will. it only brings him glory when we are in accordance with him.
    The thing is that most people who are anti-God do not have any concept of who God really is.The loving God that I know who's made me into a better person. With no purpose you'll always be searching for meaning. The most important&sad thing though is whether someone believes in God or not there are evil forces out there that are trying to destroy them&if they don't let God into their lives they are left to face them alone. And what do they have when their life is over? no hope of anything better
    All you have to do is see the evil in this world and in contrast the beauty left in this world to know there has to be forces at work. I don't claim to know everything about God but that doesn't make him not real. Imagine an adult trying to explain to a newborn the basics of multiplication or even addition. The infant simply does not have the capacity to understand.Its the same with us no matter how we try there are some things we are just not gonna understand.Thats why keeping faith is key
    Now, members of AO,

    I’m not asking for your opinions about whether or not God truly exists, but what I want to know is that do you believe what the video is trying to prove? Do you agree with the comments posted on Youtube? For me, I’m fairly open minded person, so I don’t label atheists as evil, brain washers or sinners.

    But I do find all this interesting. For me, whenever I prayed to God my wish/es always, or most of the time come true. But then again I pray with respect, hope and with a pure heart.
    Sure you might not obtain what you desire but it’s not fair to say there is no higher level being now, is it?
    What are your opinions?

    I don’t want ANY spammers, flamers or junk posting! Have fun ^_^

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    Re: Are prayers an illusion?

    When Jesus was talking with His apostles He on many times warned them about false prophets and false doctrines.
    God is not imaginary. God is real. Also Satan is real.
    SOmething that I have learned is that the most powerful weapon of the christians is the prayer. Satan knows that and he will do ANYTHING to stop us from praying... like: why u pray if God is not going to answer? Why to pray if God is imaginary? Why you pray if the science says it has no effect?.... well I pray because my God is alive and He overcomed Satan on the Cross. He had victory over the death and this is a truth that Satan and his demons know. But it is a truth that Satan knows that it is not convenient for him that ppl know that.
    I know I will have a lot of negative responses... I know that ppl will think I am the most stupid person for believing in God and believing in prayer... I don't care. I firmly believe that God is real and HE LISTENS prayers. I don't worship a jug of milk 'cos it didn't do anything for me.... itis not worthy it.... but I worship God because HE IS, and HE died to save us, HE is real, and HE reigns forever and ever....

    I Jonh 2:22
    Who's the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ (or says that God is imaginary <---- not in the bible, said by me). Such man is the anti-christ -He denies the Father and the Son..........
    I jonh 2:22

    Mathew 24: 10-11
    At that time many willl turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.....
    Mathew 24: 10-11
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    Slam Dunk Da Funk Soshi Kitai is making a name for themselves Soshi Kitai is making a name for themselves Soshi Kitai's Avatar
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    Re: Are prayers an illusion?

    Prayers an optical illusion?
    Well, first, let me say that I'm posting this before I watched it...
    Let me get off the phone before I watch it, then I'll edit this.

    So for now... prayers an optical illusion?
    Now, that depends... most people MAKE UP what THEY WANT TO SEE...
    Some people see whatever prayers they have in THE WAY THEY WANT IT.
    It's more of a meditation than it is an illusion these days.

    Even strong-hearted Christians are praying into thin air because they don't pray with their heart, body, mind, and soul. If you only pray with one of those or if you pray with only one of those missing, then it's only a selfish prayer created by your own wants and human needs.

    Prayer is a form of meditation anyways... it shows you what you truly want. Even when you pray for something you truly don't want, you definitely are figuring out what's going on with yourself. (Even an "I don't know" is a realization of the self)

    But prayer, is a form of "communication"... just as wishes and hopes and even "unearthly" pacts and promises (meaning, you make a pact or promise that is to be watched by otherworldy forces to keep it true and judged upon)...
    It's a form of "communication" because you always use it in the same context as to call upon things that watch over your life to help or to judge what is happening around you.

    Honestly, in my opinion, you don't need a prayer or ritual to communicate with an "all-powerful being"... if that being truly is all-powerful, then living your life is a way of communicating to them. Talking to thin air or even your friends and family would be communicating to them.

    -_- I've seen many kids turn away from Christianity with the stupidest and most common excuse of "One time, I prayed for my grandpa/grandma to heal/live... but he/she died, so I guess I stopped believing."... honestly, if you're leaving Christianity, do it in a way where you're not a total ****ing brat. (not flaming, just being their psychologist)
    I'm sorry if you people thought that those beyond our realm were your Santa Clauses or your Rich Mommy and Daddy... they aren't there to SERVE you. If they were there, they'd be there WITH you, so you probably don't need to pray what they already know.

    Prayer for me? Well, it's more of a ritual... I've done it so much when I was young, I can do it without thinking now. But when I choose to pray by my own will, it is because I want some "alone time" to communicate with them. Or just like everyone else, I hope... just because you have all the power to change something, doesn't mean you can't hope.

    ...EDIT- After watching the video...

    What is that guy talking about? Common sense??
    OMG, that person is so restricted in thought!

    Let me place this into his equation: The idea of coincidence itself is, or can be miracles.

    Miracles, however, is a bit overrated. We see it as some kind of grand and cosmic intervention on the global scale. When a miracle can just be a "chance"... something so miniscule.

    Let me first say that the top theorists to this day will agree to the idea that nothing is a fact. Nothing can be a fact! Because we constantly know that there is the idea of something happening out of the ordinary!
    Example: Everytime we push a battery, it will roll. Obvious.
    However, that itself cannot be a fact! There is still the almost invisible percentage that there's a chance the battery might do something that we could not predict! It might explode, it my fly, it may do anything~! Scientists are baffled at all their findings, because they almost always create new questions or several new problems. Nothing is a fact.

    To believe the idea of "yes" "no" or "wait" and prayers as an illusion because coincidence solves the equation, is fool-hearted. That is to say that you KNOW that coincidence is just fact.
    You can't KNOW that coincidence is something completely legit. As a "miracle" is, it does something unusual, something that cannot be solved by humans or other intelligent creatures. However, miracle again is overrated. Miracles is just something that is caused by otherwordly causes, so a coincidence (something that was rather unexpected) can itself be a miracle.

    >_O To actually believe this guy shows that you want to close your eyes to any other thought whatsoever. If created by an atheist, then he is just as conservative as the Christians who believe the opposite.

    Look... we can't scientifically and statistically prove or disprove prayers, miracles, or otherworldy things!
    Do you know why?

    It's because that's completely counter-productive! To use scientific methods into proving something that doesn't abide by the rules of science, it's foolish!

    That man is completely ridiculous!
    Last edited by Soshi Kitai; Jun 05, 2007 at 02:06 PM.

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    Re: Are prayers an illusion?

    I see no argument here that the video could pose.

    The reason I see no argument is because, I mean come on, the reasons the guy is bringing up is redunculous.
    Think about it, if you wanted to "Test God" then you can't rightfully set a darned time limit can you? I think not.
    About the whole Three groups of sick patients that either knew they were being prayed for....Knew that they MIGHT be being prayed for... or straight up weren't being prayed for. Thats not a scientific examination when seeing how God works. Because quite simply, know one ever knows how God DOES work! Even those who don't like Him or believe can't comprehend. Our silly little brains weren't made for it in any way possible. Thats why there is a place beyond that of our own.

    But you know,,,, as soon as something goes wrong and God fixes it {{Something like a world krazzed catastrophe and a miracle happens}} THEN People say " Oh thank God" {{Even if its involuntary}}

    You can't scientifically analyze prayer. God's will is never revealed till its done and over with, and still then!

    If it were God's will, he could have healed every person in all three groups! Or maybe even two of them. Or maybe none of them.
    Last edited by JustLoseIt; Jun 13, 2007 at 05:46 PM.

    Thanks Pyroo. :]

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    Otaku urlovelyassassin is off to a good start
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    Re: Are prayers an illusion?

    it's what you believe it is...

    its nothing more nor less

    Sometimes I still dream of you, even though you were so cold

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    Re: Are prayers an illusion?

    Quote Originally Posted by urlovelyassassin View Post
    it's what you believe it is...

    its nothing more nor less
    Simple words and quite reasonable in my opinion. My thoughts and beliefs fall under the exact same phrase, but I can't just leave it at that.

    Prayers are like many things; situations, encounters, beliefs, reactions, assumptions, etc..

    You make them what you want them to be. One man believes in this god, another believes in that one. One woman gets mugged and weeps in overwhelming depair, another woman gets mugged but stands silent and unafraid. A football player scores the game winning touchdown and does a victory dance, while another scores the touchdown and notices that he accidentally wore the same pair of socks from his last victorious game.

    People react differentally.
    "We believe what we want. Nothing more, nothing less."

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    Re: Are prayers an illusion?

    First off, this is completely flawed due to the fact that the creator used a quote from Christianity.com. Chirstians do not base their faith on a website, but on the Bible. And no where in the Bible does it say that God answers questions with a "yes, no, or wait."

    However, the video is correct in a way. Prayer will not always work. I believe that we can not simply ask God for a favor and excpect it to happen. But if we put in some effort, God will provide and help us overcome our obstacles. Some things might not seem fair. We can be praying for months for a diseased relative and they might pass away. When things like this happen, we are quick to blame God and we fail to see if there might be a small reason for this happening. And even if we look for a reason, we might not be able to find one, but who says we know every little detail?

    Lastly, the whole "God is imaginary" wasn't really proven. Christianity isn't based off of the fact that God answers prayer. Christians pray beacuse we believe God is real.

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    Re: Are prayers an illusion?

    Hmmm this is quite a topic, and quite a video too I might add.

    Speaking from a person whos come close to death and survived, I feel I would be silly to assume there was no God. And further more I'd be even more foolish to believe that a jug of milk could hold the same power as God. There are sooo many things science can not explain. So shoving scientific studies down my throat didn't sway my beliefs. And I just love how the narrator kept saying "If you're smart you'd see the illusion" As if to say If Im not falling for his load of Sh*t then I must be stupid.

    However, with that said.. I dont think prayer is meant to be used as a lottery ticket, or like you're putting a quarter in Gods gumball machine to get a prize. I don't think God gives people money or material possesions. I think rather when you pray you are GIVING something to god, and that something is trust and your problems. And in return you are givin quiet reassurance, guidance, and strength to push through your own tribulations.
    ... Not Ever Again...

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