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Thread: Reincarnation or heaven and hell?

  1. #25
    Otaku Zeikku Shadow is off to a good start Zeikku Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: Reincarnation or heaven and hell?

    Well the thought behind reincarnation is that with each new life you work toward the fulfillment of your purpose. Some say the purpose is to learn a lesson each time that you carry into your next life. With each lesson, you work closer to perfection. Some say that everyone has a part to play in the master plan, through free choice. The start and finish are set, but the choices you make, and those choices made by others, effect how your journey goes. Many times a soul can not complete their purpose, so they return and try again. I have heard it said that you are with some of the same souls again. You just each take on different roles. You torture animals in this life, you are a tortured animal in your next life.

    I come from a Jewish background, and they do not believe in He_l. They also believe that Heaven is not something you achieve upon death. Heaven is for G_d, and the angels. They believe that when the Messiah comes, they will be returned from the ashes, whole again. Those brought back will inherit the earth.

    I have chosen a different path. I believe in G_d, I just show my faith differently. I believe there is a sort of He_l. Not as most think of it, but something. I believe in the possibility of reincarnation. I do not think that everyone is, but that some are. I am not sure if souls go to Heaven or not, but I do believe we are never alone.

    Which is better... I am not sure. Going to Heaven (or He_l), awaiting the Messiah, being reincarnated... I would like to be reincarnated, and still retain my past life memories. It would almost be like being immortal. To live over and over throughout history, and retain all the memories and knowledge. that would be cool.

  2. #26
    anti-semantics Pub Quiz Champion tsurara may be famous one day tsurara may be famous one day tsurara's Avatar
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    Re: Reincarnation or heaven and hell?

    Quote Originally Posted by abby724 View Post
    if I have to work through several lives just to reach paradise, then I'm just going to live my current lives as much as I can. It's not like I'll be able to remember what happened before, anyway...
    In essence: Buddhism creates a scenario in which rules of morality dictate the ultimate progression of your soul, but you (as you are) have only one lifetime to achieve what you want before turning to dust.

    This creates the moral dillemma of whether to be good for the sake of a future self that you will not remember and for the world in general as opposed to the concrete, selfish goal of an immediate, material reward (like the promise of heaven)

    The idea of NOT remembering removes the carrot... in the most stripped-down forms of Buddhism, you are good because you have decided to be good, not because you want some fabulous shiny reward of virgins, angels, wealth, eternal life or to be off the hook for your sins.

    It's sort of like the Egyptian notion of weighing the heart against a feather. When it's all over, your deeds are measured. If you have done more good than bad: you move up in the system. If you have done more bad than good: you move down. Only "you" isn't "you" at all... just the seeds of your soul.

    It's very much like having children in a way. You die... but you continue to influence the world through the direct product of your own deeds. Your next incarnation will carry your karma, and your influence, into the future.

    In essence, Buddhists must face the reality that their consciousness will end, quite possibly forever, when they die (like atheists). But they have the added burden of considering the progression of their karma and the implications that their position in the cycle will have on the world and the system as a whole...

    Buddhism functions as both a philosophy and religion. Belief in the afterlife or reincarnation isn't necesarily required to believe the philosophy... I'm not sure how "religiously" Buddhist I am. But in essence: whether I believe the afterlife tenants or not ~ the outcome is the same.

    dust to dust...

    Reincarnation wasn't necesarily meant to be a way to "explain away" death or make it easier to accept. It isn't an easy answer... most people purporting belief in it misunderstand how potentially heavy the concept really is.

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    §-Breakdown-§ Breakout Champion, Bubble Popper Champion Akura13 may be famous one day Akura13's Avatar
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    Re: Reincarnation or heaven and hell?

    I have to say heaven and hell is better. Why? Because if you live your life doing good, you get to live in eternal life in heaven and always be happy! In reancarnation, you have to live your life again and again...why go through that when you can go live in happiness forever? But if you be bad, and don't ask for forgiveness, you'll go to hell to suffer for eternity, and that scares most people who've been bad.But its so EASY not to go to hell! QAll you have to do is ask for forgiveness and don't do that bad thing again, and you're sure for heaven! It isn't that hard! But really, I do think heaven or hell is the best way to go in my opinion.



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    Re: Reincarnation or heaven and hell?

    Quote Originally Posted by Akura13 View Post
    I have to say heaven and hell is better. Why? Because if you live your life doing good, you get to live in eternal life in heaven and always be happy! In reancarnation, you have to live your life again and again...why go through that when you can go live in happiness forever? But if you be bad, and don't ask for forgiveness, you'll go to hell to suffer for eternity, and that scares most people who've been bad.But its so EASY not to go to hell! QAll you have to do is ask for forgiveness and don't do that bad thing again, and you're sure for heaven! It isn't that hard! But really, I do think heaven or hell is the best way to go in my opinion.
    That didn't work out as well, did it?
    There is no road to heaven. There is one to hell, and not one road, but several. It's harder to get into heaven than hell.
    The reason because you have to build your own path towards heaven. And it's very hard. You can't be all "good" for the rest of your life! You can't always ask for forgiveness, because you will not know for sure if God has forgiven you or not. What matters more is realising the disastrous potential of your committed sin, and learn to forgive yourself. But, a sin is already been done, you cannot erase it.
    Also, your life is a test. Every action you do is either good, bad or neutral. People do many shameful and hurtful things without even realising it, and say things like "I hate you" without even realising how strong the word itself actually is. And, to not sin in your life is even harder. However, on the other hand, sinning is far more easier, in which case you do and get almost anything. Thus, people like these are doomed to go to hell.

    Seriously, do you think that sitting next to God is just so easy? The creator of such a vast Universe, with limitless knowledge and power, do you think that he will let you in his devine sanctuary by just forgiving you? I believe not... you have to do something much more than simply asking for forgiveness.

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    §-Breakdown-§ Breakout Champion, Bubble Popper Champion Akura13 may be famous one day Akura13's Avatar
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    Re: Reincarnation or heaven and hell?

    yes, I do admit it's hard. I never said it was easy. It's true, it's so much easier to sin, but it states in the bible that if ask for forgiveness, God will forgive you. That's why I pick Heaven or Hell, because I have a forgiving God and it's a long road to heaven, and some people get off track, but it's worth it in the end. Plus, isn't it much easier to live an eternal life of happiness instead of living life again and again? After a while, it would get tireing in my honest opinion.



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    anti-semantics Pub Quiz Champion tsurara may be famous one day tsurara may be famous one day tsurara's Avatar
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    Re: Reincarnation or heaven and hell?

    Quote Originally Posted by Akura13 View Post
    yes, I do admit it's hard. I never said it was easy. It's true, it's so much easier to sin, but it states in the bible that if ask for forgiveness, God will forgive you.
    Depends on the Bible, the interpretation and which parts you choose to emphasize.

    The Old Testament would seem to imply that God rarely forgives anyone for anything (it emphasizes restrictions, rules and fear of God)... Jesus complicates things a bit, but you need to remember that only 1 of the 3 major world religions believing in the Judeo-Christian God acknowledge Jesus as his son.

    Quite a few believe that the emphasis on forgiveness (and conveniently, the idea of paying the church to guarantee that forgiveness) was an invention of organized religion.

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    Re: Reincarnation or heaven and hell?

    Quote Originally Posted by Akura13 View Post
    After a while, it would get tireing in my honest opinion.
    That's exactly right. That's why man searches for away to rid himself from this tiring fate of being born again. In other words, achieving Moksha / Nirvana. So if you do achieve this total freedom, you won't have to be reborn. Just a simple definition.

    Also, if you ask God for forgiveness, you said that he will forgive you. So it's just like killing your neighbour and asking for forgiveness. That'll just make us stubborn and lazy.
    In our eyes we believe God has forgiven us, but since we have not seen him, nor heard him, we assume he has forgiven us; because we want to be forgiven. But has he really forgiven us when we ask him? Who knows.

    It's about our inner selves.

    And I'm not rebelling against The Bible or anything.

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    Re: Reincarnation or heaven and hell?

    Yes, it is true that God wasn't willing to forgive anyone for there sins, but I believe Jesus is the Son Of God, so in that case, Jesus died to save us from our sins, which still goes on today...I don't actually believe it was an "invention" though, why would anyone want to invent something like that? But still, with the rainbow and such that he would...so I still believe in that, though it IS hard at times, I still do. Yeah, I do believe that he'll forgive, though there are some exseptions...I'm not sure what to say to that...



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