Is Religion Necessary? - Page 11

mellow maromi · Dec 06, 2007, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Jesus to came Earth because he loves us and he came to save mankind from an eternity separated from fellowship with God in Heaven, and to save us from an eternity of constant pain, suffering and torment. That sounds like saving the world to me.

Ok, so hes saving humans from an eternity of constant pain, suffering, and torment, also known as hell. But guess what.. HE CREATED HELL.

How can you save someone from something you created to send them there? Hes not saving them, hes sparing them.

If i held a gun to your head, and told you to give me oral sex, and by doing so you wont get shot. Am I saving you? No. I am sparing you. I am sparing you from getting shot. Should you say "wow thanks for saving me, thanks for rescuing me"? No.

So how is this different?

Quote:

I was going to let this go but I can not. That is one of the most bigoted statements I have read in a long time. If anyone had made a similar list about women, blacks, Buddhists, or Japanese they would have been smacked down so hard it would leave an imprint on the board, and rightfully so. I am not going to let it slide just because it was about Christianity instead. You should be ashamed of the level of hatred and ignorance you showed in that one post alone.

As such I no longer feel there is any point to continuing to discuss this subject with someone who has shown their mind is so thoroughly closed.

Good day.
_____________

The list i gave is true. Every christian shows at least one of those traits. And you read it shaking your head, biasing it with out rethinking it, saying "no its not true, thats hateful, no, what an outrage, blah blah blah"

Quote:

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

Almost all of you on here who are christian are expressing this trait.

Quote:

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

And a few of you (anime_being_god, billium) are expressing this.

Deny it all you want, but its true.

Tetsanosuke Kirikami · Dec 06, 2007, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anime_being_god

Jesus is God, so yea what I said does make sense. And YES he did basically save the world...like I said before you agrue against my side research on it, or read the Bible...

Jesus to came Earth because he loves us and he came to save mankind from an eternity separated from fellowship with God in Heaven, and to save us from an eternity of constant pain, suffering and torment. That sounds like saving the world to me.

In John 3:16, Jesus said "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life." So God has already done all the work. However, we need to place our faith in Him. We must acknowledge the fact that He saved us from spiritual death, accepting Him as our personal Saviour and Heavenly Father

Red: Saved us from an eternity without God. Hmm.. well life and existence seemed to work before hand. That doesn't prove he saved the world. Maybe in your eyes because salvation to you is in the grace of 'your' savior. To state that god saved the world with Jesus without actual proof isn't going to make it any more true that he exists. Because the actual proof that he's even there isn't around. He has to be there to save the world, and the world has to be in trouble to be saved. And I doubt those early humans weren't all too bad, it was their culture and their ways to warship what they wanted.

Salvation to others could possibly be 'flying in a glacier rocket to space to find Da truth' and returning to enlighten the world, just because 'dah truth' answers all.'

Does this prove it's necessity? Not entirely. Any morals we gained from religions in the past, if at all real are now in place and don't need the backing of a God or Hell. Now we are the players and you could say it's 'our time to wear the daddy pants' for ourselves.

Though, I agree on some level that it can be important. Like my ideal earlier, it's a safety belt to stop people from cowering from life in fear of death.

But then again that's just a way to look at it.

*Arrianna* · Dec 06, 2007, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mellow maromi

Deny it all you want, but its true.

No mellow. The truth is that someone has feed you a pack of lies, half-truths, and misrepresentations about Christianity and you have accepted it without question even when corrected by those actually living their religion.

Your hate has made you blind and I feel very sorry for you.

Good night and peace.

mellow maromi · Dec 06, 2007, 10:37 PM

Most of the christians that I have encountered in my life express these traits. Some of them express all of them. They are common characteristics associated with Christianity.

*Abu Dhabi* · Dec 06, 2007, 10:49 PM

^_^ just to say, ignorance/blindness/arogance/hate are very common human traits, and can't really be divied up by religions...

i'm not really sure why you guys are arguing though... i mean, is anyone really re-thinking their belifes based on what other people are saying?

the reason why people "join" a "religion" is based on personal expiriences that cannot be explained any other way. and becuz of that. they cannot deny it since they belive in it so wholly.

this discussion is nice and all, but it seems to be turning into a one-liner fight...

*Lasura* · Dec 07, 2007, 07:09 AM

Let me break the argue with my own silly opinion! Yay!!!

Some need religion and some can live without it, depends really much on the person.

People have been craving to believe that someone's watching over them and helping them, something that is not material for a very long time, it is because it makes us feel safe. Thesedays though, people can feel safe without it though, because we have government, police, medicine and other things to help us- we don't need magic. And science has explained most of the things that are magical, supernatural anyways. (Yes, I compare magic to religion)

I know I love to think that there is god (I really don't care if I think wrong, I'll never find that out anyways- if there is no god, there's no life after death and therefore I'll just disappeare... oh well), I need the protection and nice feelings it gives. Indeed, as abut said, it all is based on my personal experiences and I don't even want to try and explin, because you just haven't felt what I have and won't understand...

Well there are other reasons why governments have imposed relgions in their contries etc. Back then those were ways of power, now it's usually just a reason to argue. And I don't want to argue.

*atomik_sprout* · Dec 07, 2007, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasura

People have been craving to believe that someone's watching over them and helping them, something that is not material for a very long time, it is because it makes us feel safe. Thesedays though, people can feel safe without it though, because we have government, police, medicine and other things to help us- we don't need magic. And science has explained most of the things that are magical, supernatural anyways. (Yes, I compare magic to religion)

That's all I was trying to say in my first post! I never said Christianity was bad, I never said I hated Christians. All I was saying after I started raising questions is: "What if you guys are wrong?" That and that I simply don't take part in religion.

My reasoning behind why I think religion is un-necessary is simply because if you believe there is a higher power, then you don't need to know his name, you don't need to go to church, you don't have to "walk the path of righteousness", all you need to do is live a good life. Be kind to others, the energy you put out is the energy you receive. Respect life and strive to make the world a better place. That's all that's required to feel secure in this world. You don't need blind faith in order to have God(s) in your life. Mostly everybody beleives there's a god. Why does my god HAVE to be yours? Why do I need to be religious in order to be happy?

*Joe Mage* · Dec 07, 2007, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mellow maromi

Exactly. I really think that Anime_being_god and Billium256 are (censored by the adult conspiracy). It really upsets me that the only anime forum I know is majority christian. There are like 2 athiests/agnostics here.

I mean, Anime_being_god is talking about how im illogical because I dont believe in something, because if I'm wrong, I'll go to hell.

While Billium256 is talking about how he hopes I'll learn my lesson once i hit the lake of fire. Billium also talked about how homosexuals are sinners and will be cast into a lake of fire aswell.

The world would be a better place without thinkers like that. Religious people, mainly Christians and Muslims, are the most violent people in the world. They kill and fight and insult and threat people for having different beliefs. How many Buddhists do? Zero. How many Shintos? Zero. How many Jews? Zero. How many agnostics? Zero. How many athiests? Zero.

Just look. This is so true about christians. You know your a christian when...

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

U c this is exactly what I'm talkin' 'bout Mellow, again u're underminin' ur own point by resortin' ta tactics like this. If u want ta make ur point more effective u must set aside ur own person biases on "christians" and focus more on a unbias arguement on "religion" in general. The only thing that u are succeedin' in doin' is offendin' others for their beliefs and revealin' ur own bias. The very same thing that u claim that "christians" do. It also shows how little exposure u have ta the "Christian Religion," u're bein' judgemental on "christians" but not really makin' an effective arguement on their religion or their religious beliefs. And I have already said this 'fore, but it seems that I must make this point again, religion has never been the cause for war; jus' an excuse. And it hasn' been the only one. Mankind has used varyin' excuses from thinkin' that their race is superior (Nazism) ta thinkin' that their way of life is superior (Romanism), so this part of ur argument is weak. Even if the world were filled wit atheists, it wouldn' change a thing; for we would still have wars.

Plus, I have made numerous attempts ta show u that not all "christians" r the same, yet u continue ta "blindly" lump all "christians" inta the same catagory. That would b the same as lumpin' all "african-americans" inta one catagory, or "latino-americans,"etc. and in today's day and age we call that "discrimination." I guess that would make u no better than many of the "white supremacists," or "Neo-Nazis," etc. around the world. U have shown that u r "prejudiced" against "christians" and r completely ignorant of their diversity. Yes, "christians" have made mistakes; guess what? So has the rest of mankind! So I guess that would make "christians" no better, but it doesn' render them any less significant.

And science can not prove the existence of "God," but neither can it disprove His existence. There have been many species that science has claimed didn' exist only ta b proven wrong later on in years. I.e. The African Mountain Gorilla, for years science had claimed that this creature was "myth" 'til the 1950s when they were finally discovered and this isn' the only species either. That's why many scientists have begun adoptin' a policy of "Absence of Proof is not Proof of Absence." Jus' 'cause u have no evidence ta prove the existence of somethin', does not mean that it doesn' exist. It jus' means that there is no proof. Science is jus' a tool for mankind ta use, not a way of life. Science is not exact and scientists ta this day still make "mistakes."

As far as ur personal "beliefs" r concerned, if u do not want ta believe that "God" exists, that's fine wit me. But it shows complete ignorance on ur part ta say that "christains" attack u for ur "beliefs," when u then turn around and do the same exact thing that u condemn "christians" for. It shows that u r no better and r jus' as "bad' as u claim "christians" r. When someone's beliefs do not follow ur own, u "brow beat" them 'til they through up their hands and leave, w/o even provin' ur point and renderin' ur arguement effective. It sounds like the very same tactic that u claim "christians" use, hmmm..? I think that u need ta re-evaluate ur point and try a different tactic if u ever want ppl ta, actually, listen ta u.

tsurara · Dec 07, 2007, 08:27 AM

To everyone here:

Not all atheists hate religon.
Not all Christians are fundimentalists.
Not all people who are religious are radical.

Stop looking for absolutes. There are none.

Someone who refuses to accept the possibility that there is more to life than their own world view is ignorant... worse, they are willfully so. Ignorance is easy enough to cure... but you need to learn to listen, not just talk.

Quite a few members on both sides are so convinced that their view is absolute truth and absolute right that it's making you all look pretty foolish.

There is a big difference between saying: "I think X because Y" and saying "X is true because Y. This is irrefuteable and all people who believe otherwise are idiots/going to hell."

Grow up a bit, will you already?
My infraction finger is getting itchy.

*atomik_sprout* · Dec 07, 2007, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsurara

To everyone here:

Not all atheists hate religon.
Not all Christians are fundimentalists.
Not all people who are religious are radical.

Stop looking for absolutes. There are none.

Someone who refuses to accept the possibility that there is more to life than their own world view are ignorant... worse, they are willfully so. Ignorance is easy enough to cure... but you need to learn to listen, not just talk.

Quite a few members on both sides are so convinced that their view is absolute truth and absolute right that it's making you all look pretty foolish.

There is a big difference between saying: "I think X because Y" and saying "X is true because Y. This is irrefuteable and all people who believe otherwise are idiots/going to hell."

Grow up a bit, will you already?
My infraction finger is getting itchy.

See? Now, she's got an itchy trigger finger! LOL.

I agree with ya, Tsurara. There is no absolute truth when speaking of matters like this. Not all Christians you speak to are going to damn you to hell at every chance they get. I can respect Christians simply because I know that not all--in fact most of them--don't put any pressure on you to beleive what they do. But ALL radicals are so set on making you follow that they don't even know why they believe anymore. Saying things like, "If you don't believe, you're going to live a life of suffering," is takin' it a bit too far.

My mother would cry from hearing how "God's Children" are shunning people and being judgemental--basically, doin' God's work. My mother is one of the coolest Christians I know. When I told her that I was defecting, she was totally cool with it. I wish that all religious people--regardless of what they believe--would be more open minded and allow those who want to make their own desicisons to do so.

I don't try to contradict a religious person unless I am being damned to hell. I don't tell religious people, "Well, you're stupid for believing that!" It's wrong and it's ignorant. You wanna feel "saved" then go right ahead, but you don't have to condemn me at every turn, just because our views don't see eye to eye.

**My bad, Tsurara; sometimes I call people he on accident. Thanks for the edit. ^_^**

mellow maromi · Dec 07, 2007, 12:38 PM

Quote:

And science can not prove the existence of "God," but neither can it disprove His existence.

So you wouldn't laugh at the idea that the flying spaghetti monster actually made earth?

Dec 06, 2007, 10:37 PM	#114 (permalink)
mellow maromi AO Animator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 706 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts Credits: 11,126	Re: Is Religion Necessary? Most of the christians that I have encountered in my life express these traits. Some of them express all of them. They are common characteristics associated with Christianity. __________________
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Dec 06, 2007, 10:49 PM	#115 (permalink)
Abu Dhabi Spoken for. Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Mr. Foxie's Den... Posts: 1,519 Thanks: 21 Thanked 17 Times in 14 Posts Credits: 7,720	Re: Is Religion Necessary? ^_^ just to say, ignorance/blindness/arogance/hate are very common human traits, and can't really be divied up by religions... i'm not really sure why you guys are arguing though... i mean, is anyone really re-thinking their belifes based on what other people are saying? the reason why people "join" a "religion" is based on personal expiriences that cannot be explained any other way. and becuz of that. they cannot deny it since they belive in it so wholly. this discussion is nice and all, but it seems to be turning into a one-liner fight... __________________ i don't know ka-rate, but i know ka-RAZY!! great day! . . .
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Dec 07, 2007, 07:09 AM	#116 (permalink)
Lasura Angelic Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: In a Demon's Arms Posts: 1,872 Thanks: 56 Thanked 35 Times in 32 Posts Credits: 49,619	Re: Is Religion Necessary? Let me break the argue with my own silly opinion! Yay!!! Some need religion and some can live without it, depends really much on the person. People have been craving to believe that someone's watching over them and helping them, something that is not material for a very long time, it is because it makes us feel safe. Thesedays though, people can feel safe without it though, because we have government, police, medicine and other things to help us- we don't need magic. And science has explained most of the things that are magical, supernatural anyways. (Yes, I compare magic to religion) I know I love to think that there is god (I really don't care if I think wrong, I'll never find that out anyways- if there is no god, there's no life after death and therefore I'll just disappeare... oh well), I need the protection and nice feelings it gives. Indeed, as abut said, it all is based on my personal experiences and I don't even want to try and explin, because you just haven't felt what I have and won't understand... Well there are other reasons why governments have imposed relgions in their contries etc. Back then those were ways of power, now it's usually just a reason to argue. And I don't want to argue. __________________ My recommended fanfic: "Dreamer" by Scourge
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Dec 07, 2007, 08:27 AM	#119 (permalink)
tsurara anti-semantics Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Shikoku Posts: 1,312 Thanks: 5 Thanked 81 Times in 55 Posts Credits: 61,124	Re: Is Religion Necessary? To everyone here: Not all atheists hate religon. Not all Christians are fundimentalists. Not all people who are religious are radical. Stop looking for absolutes. There are none. Someone who refuses to accept the possibility that there is more to life than their own world view is ignorant... worse, they are willfully so. Ignorance is easy enough to cure... but you need to learn to listen, not just talk. Quite a few members on both sides are so convinced that their view is absolute truth and absolute right that it's making you all look pretty foolish. There is a big difference between saying: "I think X because Y" and saying "X is true because Y. This is irrefuteable and all people who believe otherwise are idiots/going to hell." Grow up a bit, will you already? My infraction finger is getting itchy. __________________ <-RUNAWAYS-> <-lemonsquares? yay!-> <-Mmrs-> Last edited by tsurara; Dec 07, 2007 at 05:26 PM.
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