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Thread: Salute to a Brave and Modest Nation - Why is Canada forgotten?

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    Banned aceman67 has become well known aceman67 has become well known aceman67 has become well known aceman67's Avatar
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    Salute to a Brave and Modest Nation - Why is Canada forgotten?

    My mom sent me this in an email, and I thought it good for discussion.

    Salute to a brave and modest nation - Kevin Myers , 'The Sunday Telegraph' LONDON

    Until the deaths of Canadian soldiers killed in Afghanistan , probably almost no one outside their home country had been aware that Canadian troops are deployed in the region.

    And as always, Canada will bury its dead, just as the rest of the world, as always will forget its sacrifice, just as it always forgets nearly everything Canada ever does.. It seems that Canada 's historic mission is to come to the selfless aid both of its friends and of complete strangers, and then, once the crisis is over, to be well and truly ignored.

    Canada is the perpetual wallflower that stands on the edge of the hall, waiting for someone to come and ask her for a dance. A fire breaks out, she risks life and limb to rescue her fellow dance-goers, and suffers serious injuries. But when the hall is repaired and the dancing resumes, there is Canada, the wallflower still, while those she once helped glamorously cavort across the floor, blithely neglecting her yet again.

    That is the price Canada pays for sharing the North American continent with the United States , and for being a selfless friend of Britain in two global conflicts.

    For much of the 20th century, Canada was torn in two different directions: It seemed to be a part of the old world, yet had an address in the new one, and that divided identity ensured that it never fully got the gratitude it deserved.

    Yet its purely voluntary contribution to the cause of freedom in two world wars was perhaps the greatest of any democracy. Almost 10% of Canada 's entire population of seven million people served in the armed forces during the First World War, and nearly 60,000 died. The great Allied victories of 1918 were spearheaded by Canadian troops, perhaps the most capable soldiers in the entire British order of battle.

    Canada was repaid for its enormous sacrifice by downright neglect, it's unique contribution to victory being absorbed into the popular memory as somehow or other the work of the 'British.'

    The Second World War provided a re-run. The Canadian navy began the war with a half dozen vessels, and ended up policing nearly half of the Atlantic against U-boat attack. More than 120 Canadian warships participated in the Normandy landings, during which 15,000 Canadian soldiers went ashore on D-Day alone.

    Canada finished the war with the third-largest navy and the fourth largest air force in the world. The world thanked Canada with the same sublime indifference as it had the previous time.

    Canadian participation in the war was acknowledged in film only if it was necessary to give an American actor a part in a campaign in which the United States had clearly not participated - a touching scrupulousness which, of course, Hollywood has since abandoned, as it has any notion of a separate Canadian identity.

    So it is a general rule that actors and filmmakers arriving in Hollywood keep their nationality - unless, that is, they are Canadian. Thus Mary Pickford, Walter Huston, Donald Sutherland, Michael J. Fox, William Shatner, Norman Jewison, David Cronenberg, Alex Trebek, Art Linkletter, Mike Weir, Jim Carrey, Dan Aykroyd, etc. have, in the popular perception become American, and Christopher Plummer, British.

    It is as if, in the very act of becoming famous, a Canadian ceases to be Canadian, unless she is Margaret Atwood, who is as unshakably Canadian as a moose, or Celine Dion, for whom Canada has proved quite unable to find any takers.

    Moreover, Canada is every bit as querulously alert to the achievements of its sons and daughters as the rest of the world is completely unaware of them. The Canadians proudly say of themselves - and are unheard by anyone else - that 1% of the world's population has provided 10% of the world's peacekeeping forces.


    Canadian soldiers in the past half century have been the greatest peacekeepers on Earth - in 39 missions on UN mandates, and six on non-UN peacekeeping duties, from Vietnam to East Timor, from Sinai to Bosnia.

    Yet the only foreign engagement that has entered the popular non-Canadian imagination was the sorry affair in Somalia , in which out-of-control paratroopers murdered two Somali infiltrators.. Their regiment was then disbanded in disgrace - a uniquely Canadian act of self-abasement for which, naturally, the Canadians received no international credit.

    So who today in the United States knows about the stoic and selfless friendship its northern neighbour has given it in Afghanistan ?

    Rather like Cyrano de Bergerac , Canada repeatedly does honourable things for honourable motives, but instead of being thanked for it, it remains something of a figure of fun. It is the Canadian way, for which Canadians should be proud, yet such honour comes at a high cost. This past year more grieving Canadian families knew that cost all too tragically well.

    Lest we forget.
    As some of you might know, I'm from a military family. On my mother's side, My grandfather served in World War II (US Navy Air corps), Korea(US Army Air Corps), and Vietnam(US Army Air Corps instructor), her two brothers also served in Vietnam (US Navy and USMC respectfully). On my father's side, My grandfather was a Merchant Marine and worked the shipping lanes in the North Atlantic, his boat being sunk by German U-Boats on two occasions. My father served in the Canadian army doing a NATO tour in Germany before the fall of the Soviet Bloc, and 2 Peace Keeping tours in Bosnia. His Brother was a NCO in the Canadian Armored Corps, but I'm unfamiliar where he served.

    I'm no stranger to people from other countries not knowing Canada's history of selfless sacrifice, some of them making fun of our armed forces. Most are stunned when I tell them that if it wasn't for Sir Arthur Currie's tactics he devised for the Battle of Vimy Ridge, the worlds armies wouldn't have the common practice of Covering Suppressive Fire (During the battle, Canadian Artillery constantly shelled mere feet in front of advancing Canadian Troops, and didn't lose a single soldier to Friendly Artillery fire). During D-Day, Canadians at Juno-Beach where the only units to complete all their D-Day objectives, and advanced farther in-land then any other units participating in the offensive, and as mentioned in the article above, D-Day was made possible largely thanks to Canadian Naval equipment.

    Hell, the Germans in World War One had a saying: The Americans are coming, Man your posts!, The British are coming, Prepare to fight!, THE CANADIANS ARE COMING! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!

    Canadian military personnel have the reputation of getting the job done, no matter the cost. My father says its all because we're nuts.

    Why is it that Canada's achievements, most notably its military achievements, are largely forgotten, and routinely mocked?

    Personally, I'm glad that shows like Combat Hospital have become popular and shows the world that Canadians are out there, making a difference.

    Hopefully, such mentality that spawned this thread will decline.
    Last edited by aceman67; Sep 20, 2011 at 07:25 AM.

  2. #2
    Mage of Eternity Joe Mage is making a name for themselves Joe Mage is making a name for themselves Joe Mage's Avatar
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    Re: Salute to a Brave and Modest Nation - Why is Canada forgotten?

    I understand completely where you're coming from there Aceman, I am one of a few americans that even know of the sacrifices that Canada has made in the many conflicts that have occurred in the history of the world. I do agree that many have forgotten, however not all have. It's odd, but I think that it's true, yet I think that it's mainly because of a combination of things that this happens. It's how history unfolds combined with the feelings of national pride often carried by many other countries during such conflicts that are, to me, two of the main contributing factors that contribute to this. When you also take into account the fact that Canada lives next to the world's superpower as well as other contributing factors, it's easy to see how it gets buried in the annuals of history so readily. It's sad really, 'cause I view Canada as a great nation that's very deserving of it's place in history. It's up to, not only the world, but Canada as well to speak out and make sure that their place in history isn' forgotten. This is something that Canada must do as a nation, to make others remember their sacrifices and not depend on the world to try and remember it themselves. Otherwise their deeds may continue to be forgotten.

    Sanity doesn't exist, it's just an excuse cooked up by crazy people to justify their actions. My myspace page: www.myspace.com/joemage

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    Strange Times Dark. is making a name for themselves Dark. is making a name for themselves Dark.'s Avatar
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    Re: Salute to a Brave and Modest Nation - Why is Canada forgotten?

    Translation from Joe Mage's post: Canada needs to be more empirical if it ever wants to be recognized in world history.

    aceman posted this at otaku zen too, and it was one point I hadn't thought of until Joe's post. When you think of world history, you're only seeing the countries who have been empires, or countries that played huge roles in key events of an empire's history. Joe made the point here as well, your neighbors are the US, a superpower whose pride and ambition overshadows all of its neighbors.

    I know it can be frustrating to get past the stereotypes about the place you live, Aceman. I live in frickin' Nebraska, and the more ignorant out-of-staters still think we all live on farms and in cornfields and think themselves witty to jest about it. Americans make fun of Canada cuz they don't know anything about it, and that's not something you can fix by boasting about all of Canada's great accomplishments in a tiny little anime forum. The best you can do is to prove people wrong on an individual basis and not come off as defensive about it.

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    Banned aceman67 has become well known aceman67 has become well known aceman67 has become well known aceman67's Avatar
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    Re: Salute to a Brave and Modest Nation - Why is Canada forgotten?

    Copy Pasta Dark.'s Post on OZ

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark.

    You're asking the question, so I'll give you my answer. I'm just giving you things from an American perspective, not trying to piss you off or seem ignorant. Here are three reasons why no one thinks about Canada:

    1) You have no recognizable leader, past or present. Now I'm no historian, but I was fond of history in high school and could probably name a couple famous leaders from various countries during various times. But if I were ever asked about the most famous leader in Canada, honestly, I'd be at a loss. Who do you have in Canada that has international acclaim? Oh sure, you've got some famous celebrities (many of whom come to work down here in the US), but as far as political leaders go, you have no one. Who is the face of America? More or less the president, right? Who is the face of Canada? Nobody knows. I can't speak for other countries, but in the US maybe one in a hundred people (that's being very generous) could tell you, and even less could care. Instead people thing of mounties mounted on mooses

    2). Canada is not (and never was) a superpower. What great empire has Canada ever had? Yours is one of the most peaceful countries ever. Sure you fought in the wars because your allies called on you, but tell me, who ever went to war squarely with Canada to conquer them? The most likely candidate to invade you would the US, and the two times we tried we got our asses handed to us. Canada plays a role in the political arena, but they are not a superpower politically, militarily, or economically. I could easily be misinformed, hell I welcome education to the contrary, but that's how the ignorant masses of the US view you. Which leads me to my third point:

    3). Your neighbors are the US. We are the shiny superpower of the world right now (or at least we think so). Anything you do, is dwarfed by us in comparison. Even if you equaled us in everything, you could never best America in terms of pride.

    I sometimes think of the US and Canada's relationship like this:

    America is the proud older brother, star of the football team who everyone loves, but loses his glory after he grows up and becomes a washed up deadbeat. Canada is the dorky younger brother who goes to college and makes a modest name for himself, and one day even big brother was jealous of everything his baby brother Canada had.
    And my Response:

    To answer your first question, Canada has a Prime Minister, exactly like Britain. Our current one is Stephan Harper. Two PMs of Note in recent decades are Pierre Trudeau. He's famous for keeping Canada in the North American Treaty Organization (NATO). He was also responsible for opening diplomatic channels with China, long before the US did, and even had an Official visit there.

    Interesting note: Trudeau was known to be a good friend of Castro. In the 70s, a Mobster said he was hired by New York State to kill Trudeau in order to draw Castro to his funeral to kill him. The plan was apparently rejected. (LINK)

    The second was Paul Martian, at least in Canada, he is. His economic plans he put in place while Economic Minister under Jean Chretien's Leadership during the 90's, and continued to put forward during his Brief time as Prime Minister in the early 2000's after Chretien's retirement, strengthened Canada's economic situation to the point where it survived the housing crisis created by the US banks and housing market that lead to the Global recession a lot better then many other nations. The fact that the Canadian dollar has been worth more then the US for the last several months is a good indication of this.

    To answer your second question: Yes, we were a super power. At the end of the Second World War, we had the 4th largest Navy and Air force. That by definition made us one. And who would want to invade us? That's an easy question to answer: You say you're a history buff, then you should know that it was The United States did, with a little thing called the War of 1812, and I remember that Canada sacked Washington, and burned down the White House.

    To answer your third question, yes, The US does have alot of pride. It comes from your history. Your countries independence was paid for with blood, ours was given to us by the UK Parliament as an afterthought so they could move on to institute a Dog Tax. But you say we don't have much pride, I've got to ask you this: Did you watch the Vancouver Olympics? That should show you Canadian pride. Also, the US, with all its boasting of its military prowess, can't stomach the returning of its war dead and doesn't allow the press to cover and honor its fallen heroes. Some American's don't even respect veterans. My Uncle Tony was in the USMC during Vietnam, when he returned home in San Diego, a young mother encouraged her daughter to spit on him and call him a baby killer.

    Canada renamed a 100 KM stretch of the Ontario Highway 401 from Trenton Air Force Base to Toronto the "Highway of Heroes", and when our War Dead return home, Thousands line the road and bridges to show respect and honor its fallen.

    U.S. Media Tribute to Highway of Heroes - YouTube
    Highway of Heroes Tribute - YouTube

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    Otaku Artistic Anarchy is off to a good start Artistic Anarchy's Avatar
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    Re: Salute to a Brave and Modest Nation - Why is Canada forgotten?

    Modest Nation?

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    Re: Salute to a Brave and Modest Nation - Why is Canada forgotten?

    Your video proves nothing, Artistic Anarchy. Find me a country that hasn't had riots for one reason or another. (spoiler: that country doesn't exist)

    We can go back and forth all day showing the best and worst of Canada (or any other country for that matter) but none of these events are going to change overall perspective of the country. My three reasons over at OZ still hold as the main reasons Canada is not given the same attention as the US or other powerful European and Asian countries.

    Canada has no historically recognizable leader. Yeah, I know Canada has a prime minister, that doesn't mean anyone outside of Canada knows who he is.

    Canada may be a superpower technically, but they still have no empirical history to speak of. That's because of reason number three:

    Canada's neighbor is the US. Good luck outshining the self-described best country of the world.

    I'm not saying it's fair, I'm just saying that's how it is. For every group of assholes that give Canada shit, there's an overwhelming majority that honestly, have no qualms with Canada and in fact always pledge that they'll move there whenever we elect a president that's going to "destroy this country." I respect a citizen of Canada as much as I respect one of Mexico, or England, or China, or any other country in the world. And I am *not* the only one.

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    Otaku Artistic Anarchy is off to a good start Artistic Anarchy's Avatar
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    Re: Salute to a Brave and Modest Nation - Why is Canada forgotten?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark. View Post
    Your video proves nothing, Artistic Anarchy. Find me a country that hasn't had riots for one reason or another. (spoiler: that country doesn't exist)
    For the record I never wrote that Canada is the only nation that riots, but a nation that riots at all wouldn't be completely considered modest. That was my original point.

    Egypt, Libya, and Iraq may riot over tyrrany.
    Africa may riot over famine.
    Other countries may riot over unjust actions, power tripping rulers, senseless death showers.
    Hell, in the midst of a Tsunami's aftermath, Japan holds strong its composure without taking advantage of what stores may be abandoned upon chaos
    but Canada riots over a lost hockey game.... yeah, how dare I have the audacity and gall to post such a video. Rioting's not enough though, but I guess looting is just a bi-product of the matter itself, and it's not the nation itself that promotes its greed, violence or stupidity it's the people who inhabit it.

    Overall, the video I'd posted does prove that Canada, said country, is not as modest as gloried in OP's claim.
    Last edited by Artistic Anarchy; Mar 31, 2012 at 03:23 PM.

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