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Thread: Was Satan a mistake?

  1. #113
    Slam Dunk Da Funk Soshi Kitai is making a name for themselves Soshi Kitai is making a name for themselves Soshi Kitai's Avatar
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    Tomorrow Has Come Pt.1

    PART 1
    ^_^ Tomorrow has come, and as a promise... I'll work hard to reply to this topic.


    Was Satan a mistake? Afterall... God is perfect and cannot commit evil, and if Satan is practically the "say-so of evil"... then indirectly, whether Satan was originally created as a perfect being and turned evil or always had evil in 'him', wouldn't God have made evil? And in that way, committing evil?



    The first thing you have to ask first is:
    Do you believe in God?

    If not, this topic is already finished for you.


    The second thing is:
    Do you believe in Satan?

    If not, this topic is already finished for you.




    ... now... here's where it starts getting complicated:
    What is your viewpoint in life?


    Believe it or not, that question can alter reality for you... however, truth can't be altered by thought, it can only be perceived differently. (Just as a warning)






    ........now, for the arguments:


    (A1) Satan? Could 'he' possibly be the yin of God's yang?

    In other words: Could Satan be the definition of God as God is the definition of Satan? (Aa)

    (Ab) Afterall, how would one understand good without knowing what is evil?


    If that is the case, then Satan would be a creation of understandment. A creation to make one see God "in full glory".



    Another reasoning for that is:
    (Ac) Was Satan really created for evil? Or for the sole purpose of God's 'glory', Satan was made to be the "anti"... a sort of transformation to create a balance.


    And yet another reasoning:
    (Ad) Satan... well, actually, Lucifer (to be more polite... XD) ... could have been created to test the humans... for what? Is the question...
    (Ae) Afterall, if you simply answer that with: To choose between good and evil, you would then question why one would create something that has the possibility to fail? And would that not just prove that God's some kind of perverted ruler of the universe who enjoys creating things to watch? And only rewarding those He finds the most interesting?

    Here's the argument for those questions in [Ae] :
    [1a]God is perfect.
    [1b]God made the Garden of Eden.
    [1c]In the Garden of Eden there was the Tree of Knowledge.
    [1d]Humans were the protectors of the Garden of Eden.
    [1e]Satan tempted them.
    [1f]They followed.
    [1g]Humans ate from the Tree of Knowledge and have sinned.
    [1h]Humans have sinned.

    [1i]Well, in that case... for the possibility that the Tree of Knowledge to exist, God must have made it (unless if Satan made it, but that would still be indirectly creating it) .

    [1j]Why would God create something forbidden from the humans and all other creations? What purpose would it have other to be eaten from or to test others?

    [1k]If it was not meant to be eaten, then it must have been made to test. If it was made to test, then why?

    [1l]Afterall, humans were perfect and did not know sin. How would they know what betrayal is when they don't know what is 'wrong' ? God must have forseen that Satan would have tricked them, and the possibility that humans would fall for it.

    [1m]But why test? For what? There's no reason to test. Humans would have never disobeyed God, they didn't know what 'disobeying God' was!



    BUT! If you look at that last statement (1m) , wouldn't you believe that God put the Tree of Knowledge there TO BE EATEN? So that they'd understand what wrong was? What disobeying was?

    Some kind of sick joke it was to give humans a guilt trip when they had no idea what they were doing, right?



    Anyways, onward with the argument...

    Another way of perceiving this situation is the simple:
    (A2) God made a mistake.

    broken down in this manner

    (Aaa) God is perfect.
    (Aab) God cannot do evil.
    (Aac) God created Lucifer.
    (Aad) God created humans.
    (Aae) Lucifer disobeyed God. The first to sin.
    (Aaf) Lucifer tempted Adam and Eve.
    (Aag) Adam and Eve disobeyed as well.
    (Aah) Satan, Adam, and Eve are all now sinners.
    (Aai) God has indirectly created sin.
    (Aaj) God has indirectly caused evil (or the creation of it) .
    (Aak) God is no longer perfect.

    If you believe in [A2], then you're already done in this subject.


    Time to get more complicated.
    Next argument:

    (A3) Satan is the alter ego of God.

    (Aba)... imagine the Cross... on the top is The Father... then on the left and right are the Son and the Holy Spirit.

    The Father being God.
    The Son being Jesus.
    The Holy Spirit being The Holy Spirit.


    The Cross, to symbolize the Trinity. 3 beings, 1 God.
    However, most people consider this as a contradiction, trying to make God fit the laws of space and time. However, since God has created those laws, they don't apply to Him and contradiction cannot exist.

    (Abb)However...

    Imagine, that the bottom stem represented: Satan.

    Hard to believe? Well... let me continue...


    (Abc)God is Perfect...
    None can challenge Him in any way possible.

    (Abd)God created all things Perfect.
    Lucifer was Perfect.

    (Abe)However, Lucifer seemed the 'best' of the angels.
    An angel of 'unchallenged beauty'.

    (Abf)Lucifer defied God.
    Lucifer has done the unthinkable.



    In [Abf] the statements are extremely powerful.
    [2a] When I say Lucifer has done the unthinkable, I mean just that, THE UNTHINKABLE. (which would refer that angels have the possibility to THINK)
    [2b] However, in this manner, angels couldn't in any way, have thought. They were Perfect creations of God, and God is Perfect.
    [2c] To be created Perfect, means to be like God. Or in simpler terms: You are God. Not as a seperate, but as One with God. Thoughts, feelings, everything. Merely just in a seperate "body".
    [2d] Angels cannot think. Because they are Perfect.
    [2e] They are like the Tools of God. The Hands of God. To be Perfect, is to be One with God, for He is Perfect. And Perfect is God. To say "Perfection" is to say "God".
    [2f] To be Perfect, you cannot think. You cannot seperate yourself from Perfect.

    ...

    [2g] But... one did... 'he' was the first to THINK.


    To help in the above statements of why "Perfection cannot Think" :
    [2aa] To be Perfect is to Know All. How could one THINK, if one KNOWS?
    [2ab] As an example...
    - Cogito Ergo Sum... "I think therefore I am"... I know I exist, because once I say the words "I think"... something has to exist to THINK, and that existance is "I".

    [2ac] You know you exist. You cannot think it. You know you do. When you question your existance, you are merely asking where is your origin.
    [2ad] It's like asking "I am a dream... but who is sleeping to make me exist?"
    [2ae] Imagine that "KNOWING" EVERYTHING AND NOTHING ALL AT ONCE IN ETERNITY AND OUT OF ETERNITY AND ETC ETC! Imagine, that you could define "Etc" (everything else) in just existing!

    [2af]Meaning: You KNOW EVERYTHING, but you MORE THAN EVERYTHING. Meaning you even KNOW what NOTHING is, and the NOTHINGNESS in everything as well! Omniscient! All-knowing.

    [2ag] Do you know how you know all and nothing? Because you ARE everything and nothing! All at once! Because you are that existance!
    [2ah] "Everything and Nothing think therefore Everything and Nothing am."
    [2ai] Henceforth, God's all-too-cool quote "I AM". Because He is EVERYTHING AND NOTHING. ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.



    Continuing where I left off:

    (Abg) Satan has defied everything! To defy perfection!
    (Abh) To defy perfection, Satan must be beyond/below perfection!
    (Abi) How could God create an imperfection (definition being: Anything that is not perfect. ) ?


    (Abj) Satan was not a mistake. Satan is not imperfection.

    Just as God is Perfect.
    Satan is the alter, co-existing not as a balance, but as God.

    Satan is Perfect. In a different manner entirely.
    God controls all, and Satan can control all as well.

    (Abk) Imagine this:
    The Tree of Knowledge, Sins, The 10 Commandments, Jesus, The Crucifixion, Everything.

    All of it was because God made it so. Perfectly.

    (Abl) But how could God have done it without Satan?

    Do you see it yet?

    SATAN IS GOD. Just the same as Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit!

    God did not make a mistake.
    God did not create sin.
    For if God was everything and nothing, then sin would exist as well!
    Satan had to exist, just the same as Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
    Afterall, how could God's Wrath be explained without the help of Satan?

    If you take just ONE of them out of the picture, none of those would have happened!

    (Abm) In this situation: God is either toying with us. Or God has a giant plan for all of us, even the damned.
    Last edited by Soshi Kitai; May 25, 2006 at 10:16 AM.

  2. #114
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    Tomorrow Has Come Pt.2

    PART 2
    This might corrolate with the above statements [A3] :

    (A4) The God we know and worship is not THE GOD.

    (Aca) Blasphemy, you say? Well, you have to take all possibilities into consideration.

    (Acb) Imagine... that everything we could ever think of, comes into creation?

    (Acc) It doesn't have to be physical... or spiritual.

    In fact, everytime you think of something, it comes into creation.
    It is created as a THOUGHT.

    (Acd) What if in this possibility, if we believe something hard enough... it comes into pure existance?

    The target: The God we worship.

    (Ace) Doesn't it seem odd to you for a God to be so perfect and yet all these rules come into place? Rules that even confuse what is really good or evil?

    Sure, you may blame humans for making these rules... but what about even the concrete things? Like the 10 Commandments?

    (Acf) Sure God created us, and He can destroy us. But why cannot we destroy each other? Thou shalt not kill. Why? It ends one's life... simple...
    But what if it gets complicated? What if it saves millions of people if you kill one?
    If you say: If only God allows it...
    Then I could say: Then how come, no matter how many bullets I'm driving into people's heads, God hasn't struck me with lightning yet? Why hasn't the first cop been able to stop me? ... to let humans fight amongst each other...

    (Acg) What about the Tree of Knowledge? Who in the right mind would put the most expensive thing in the world in a room with a bunch of rowdy children? What the heck was God thinking?

    (Ach) But none of that matters...
    What really matters is: What if... we once truly knew who THE GOD was, but as time went on, we kept assuming the things we didn't know about him? ...and in this manner, we created a false God. And that False God came into existance and ruled the universe as we believed He would.

    (Aci) But when this comes up, whatever happened to THE GOD?

    (Acj) Well, whoever said THE GOD had to do anything we wanted? He could, but we possibly made so many false Gods that we can't even tell who THE GOD is anymore! What if HE is helping us even today, but we keep praising the FALSE God for that? ... we assume God is this and God is that... to worship such thoughts, wouldn't that make you praising the wrong God?

    (Ack) In the ending statement: Either the God we made, made Satan. Or, Satan is a creation of our's as well. Or even the possibility of: Satan isn't bad, we just believed that he was... we just made the wrong assumption, that's all.





    This corrolates heavily with [A4] :

    (A5) Humans are wrong.

    (Ada) Let's say a God does exist.
    (Adb) Let's say a Satan does exist.

    (Adc) But humans have skewed the ideas about them so much...

    (Add) That we have no right to say who they are, because we truly don't know...
    In any way possible... who they are...
    Whether Satan exists, or if 'he' was created by God.
    Whether Satan is evil, or if God is good.

    (Ade) If you believe this... this entire argument ends now.



    A controversial one:

    (A6) Satan, our Savior.

    (Aea) For all of you who feel bad for Satan getting beat down several times by "annoying people"... this is the one for you.

    (Aeb) Satan was our first Free Thinker. (refer to [2g] and statements surrounding it)

    (Aec) Let's say... Satan knew that there was no real happiness in being Perfection...

    That you're just being a robot who follows your programming...

    Made to worship and praise God.

    Just be God, a puppet of God...

    (Aed) Satan defied God for that purpose.
    But Satan was less than perfect (refer to [Abh] and statements surrounding it) ...
    How could Satan stand against God?

    (Aee) Angered by this... God has created a false reality around the knowledge of the once beloved Lucifer.

    We were made to believe 'he' was evil and everything...

    (Aef) But this wasn't 'his' last try! Satan tempted us to the Tree of Knowledge, to make us see what really was going on!

    (Aeg) But again, it then leads to God winning in the end.

    (Aeh) Many would be happy not to choose what is happy or what is sad...

    (Aei) But those who weren't, were damned.

    (Aej) Do you read the Bible?
    ... you will not remember anyone in heaven.
    ... you won't have pain or sadness.
    ... perfect peace.

    (Aek)
    Imagine that! But do you realize... that to have that... you would have to destroy free will?

    (Ael) You would have to be One with God once more. (refer to [2a] and all statements below it)

    (Aem) But wouldn't that question again: Why did God create us?

    (Aen) Possibly... we weren't exactly "created"... we are part of that EVERYTHING that exists ( [2af] and below statements) ... just the same as there are other creations... other actions and methods...

    (Aeo) ...so... in the end... Satan's just trying to save us from this Slavery called God.



    Time for those who want a more sensible one:

    (A7) Satan is just a creation. A tool like the rest.

    (Afa) Let us say that all of [A3] and [A6] can be answered simply!

    (Afb) Satan only looks as if 'he' is thinking and opposing God.

    (Afc) When in reality... 'he' is just a tool like all the rest...

    (Afd) No more, no less power then the rest of the angels...

    (Afe) A tool made to look like another entity...

    (Aff) When really, God is just controlling 'him' like all the rest.

    (Afg) If you follow this, you would wonder whether God has a plan for us, or is just plain creating a giant drama for the actors/audience (us) or for Himself.





    There are even more explanations I can give to the existance of Satan!
    However, you'd have to ask me again to start another one...
    Right now, I'm getting tired of typing...
    That, and I have to go to class.


    ^_^ Sorry if I offended anyone in this topic... I merely gave explanations that could possibly exist.

    Just like you asked. And thank you for letting me post.
    Last edited by Soshi Kitai; May 25, 2006 at 10:20 AM.

  3. #115
    Fish Fingers & Custard Ice Hockey Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Mini Putt 3 Champion, Ant Tracks Champion, Jungle Hunt Champion, Madnetics Champion, Manole Champion, Blokken Champion, Fast Food Fiasco Champion, Shapes Hifters Champion, Mud and Blood: Vietnam Champion HolderOfTheDarkChalice is making a name for themselves HolderOfTheDarkChalice is making a name for themselves HolderOfTheDarkChalice's Avatar
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    Re: Was Satan a mistake?

    all those statements are true but you have to ask

    your self with all the doubt's that come about

    from qusetioning faith is it possable that satan

    has planed it this way i mean he sole purpose

    is to collect souls that stray from god.

    not beliving in the devil means your already his

    not beliving in god is a bonus.

    everyone is so blinded by questions and ethics

    that the truth is blurred wich is the perfect

    enviroment for satan to do his worst
    I'll be the one to protect you from your enemies and all your demons
    I'll be the one to protect you from a will to survive and a voice of reason
    I'll be the one to protect you from your enemies and your choices son
    They're one in the same, I must isolate you...
    Isolate and save you from yourself

  4. #116
    Ecchi Enthusiast Classic Donkey Kong Champion, Balloon Bomber Champion, Fishing Impossible Champion, Festival Of History : Archery Champion, Dare Devil Champion, Little Monkey Does Champion, Dragon Champion, Barty Champion, Cheesy Champion, Chicken Attack Champion, Moo Lander Champion, Hang Stan Champion, Hangaroo Champion, Sentenced Champion, Canadair Champion Miroku4444 may be famous one day Miroku4444 may be famous one day Miroku4444's Avatar
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    Re: Was Satan a mistake?

    lamo Soshi you have too much time on your hands. <--No offence. Can i get the abridged version of what you said??

  5. #117
    Slam Dunk Da Funk Soshi Kitai is making a name for themselves Soshi Kitai is making a name for themselves Soshi Kitai's Avatar
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    Re: Was Satan a mistake?

    Quote Originally Posted by kastelic4444
    lamo Soshi you have too much time on your hands. <--No offence. Can i get the abridged version of what you said??
    ^o^ Just read the bolded orange statements... then the statements at the end of each of those topics.

    ^_^ (I'm sorry... this is one of the best topics for me...
    ... I used to turn Christians away from their faith with questions like this)

    ^.^ (I liked to test people's faiths)

  6. #118
    Fish Fingers & Custard Ice Hockey Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Mini Putt 3 Champion, Ant Tracks Champion, Jungle Hunt Champion, Madnetics Champion, Manole Champion, Blokken Champion, Fast Food Fiasco Champion, Shapes Hifters Champion, Mud and Blood: Vietnam Champion HolderOfTheDarkChalice is making a name for themselves HolderOfTheDarkChalice is making a name for themselves HolderOfTheDarkChalice's Avatar
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    Re: Was Satan a mistake?

    testing ones faith is pretty good

    but what would have happend if thewy would have goated you

    into the faith i mean it can go both ways
    I'll be the one to protect you from your enemies and all your demons
    I'll be the one to protect you from a will to survive and a voice of reason
    I'll be the one to protect you from your enemies and your choices son
    They're one in the same, I must isolate you...
    Isolate and save you from yourself

  7. #119
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    Re: Was Satan a mistake?

    Darling made my brain go, "Ow!"

    ... was Satan a mistake? was anything a mistake? was everything a mistake? ... i dunno, i really don't know...

    but of course, my spiritual journey is not... as... i don't know how you would say it but it's not as good as Soshi's... but for me... everything is connected in some way, everything works together for good... sometimes the best way to know, is to admit you don't... them is when you truly learn...

    ^_^ that's my mish-mash answer at least!

  8. #120
    Fish Fingers & Custard Ice Hockey Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Mini Putt 3 Champion, Ant Tracks Champion, Jungle Hunt Champion, Madnetics Champion, Manole Champion, Blokken Champion, Fast Food Fiasco Champion, Shapes Hifters Champion, Mud and Blood: Vietnam Champion HolderOfTheDarkChalice is making a name for themselves HolderOfTheDarkChalice is making a name for themselves HolderOfTheDarkChalice's Avatar
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    Re: Was Satan a mistake?

    satan wasnt a mistake he was part

    of the grand design of thing's oh sure

    we dont know what that grand design

    is but he is a part of it. you know like

    balancing the evil with the good with out

    evil there would be no good .good would have

    no reason to live and would fade away
    I'll be the one to protect you from your enemies and all your demons
    I'll be the one to protect you from a will to survive and a voice of reason
    I'll be the one to protect you from your enemies and your choices son
    They're one in the same, I must isolate you...
    Isolate and save you from yourself

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