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Thread: Should Abortion Be Legal or not lets debate

  1. #257
    Thanks for the memories princesslady may be famous one day princesslady may be famous one day princesslady's Avatar
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    History
    Abortion has existed in almost every society and was legal under Roman law, which also condoned infantcide. Today, almost two-thirds of the women in the world may obtain a legal abortion.

    When America was founded, abortion was legal. Laws prohibiting abortion were introduced in the mid-1800s, and, by 1900, most had been outlawed. Outlawing abortion did nothting to prevent pregnancy, and some estimates put the number of annual illegal abortions from 200,000 to 1.2 million in the 50s and 60s.

    States began liberalizing abortion laws in the 1960s, reflecting changed societal mores and, perhaps, the number of illegal abortions. Then in 1965, the Supreme Court introduced the idea of a "right to privacy" in Griswold v. Connecticut as it struck down laws that banned the sale of condoms to married people.

    Abortion was legalized in 1973 when the U.S.Supreme Court ruled in Roe v. Wade that during the first trimester, a woman has the right to decide what happens to her body. This landmark decision rested on the "right to privacy" which was introduced in 1965. In addition, the Court ruled that the state could intervene in the second trimester and could ban abortions in the third trimester. However, a central issue, which the Court declined to address, is whether human life begins at conception, at birth, or at some point in between.

    it was a right of privacy and many illigal abortions happening!! it has been going on for years so it will never get banned.

    Issue Summary: Abortion

    here is the link.
    Last edited by kedar; Oct 21, 2006 at 07:42 PM. Reason: Double posting!

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  2. #258
    Moderator Fling The Cow Champion, Abba The Fox Champion deodaclan18 may be famous one day deodaclan18 may be famous one day deodaclan18's Avatar
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    Re: Should Abortion Be Legal or not lets debate

    Well an article I read says their weren't as many illegal abortion deaths as people think and that there were the same number of deaths from legal abortions if not more after it was legalized.

    Quote: "In my book Aborted Women, Silent No More, an entire chapter examines what is known about illegal abortions prior to Roe v. Wade and how they compare to the dangers of legal abortion today. While there is not room to reexamine all that material here, I will quickly review some of the most important points.1
    • Prior to legalization, 90 percent of illegal abortions were done by physicians. Most of the remainder were done by nurses, midwives or others with at least some medical training. The term "back alley" abortion referred not to where abortions were performed, but to how women were instructed to enter the doctor's office after hours, through the back alley, to avoid arousing neighbors' suspicions.


    • Pro-abortionists claimed that "five to ten thousand women die from illegal abortions every year." This pseudo-fact was much repeated by the media. Abortion proponents like former abortionist Dr. Bernard Nathanson knew this figure was false but considered it to be "useful" in their public relations campaign. Even Planned Parenthood's own leading statisticians admitted that the official statistics on deaths resulting from illegal abortion were very accurately reported prior to 1973. In 1972, there were only 32 maternal deaths related to illegal abortion, not the thousands proclaimed by pro-abortionists.


    • Deaths from illegal abortions were already declining or leveling off prior to 1973. After legalization, this trend remained unchanged. Deaths eliminated from the illegal abortion column were replaced by deaths resulting from legal abortion.

    • The number of women dying from legal abortions is probably several times what it was when abortion was illegal. For many compelling reasons, deaths resulting from illegal abortion were accurately reported on death certificates. Independent studies have confirmed this. But ever since 1973, whenever a legal abortion results in a maternal death the underlying cause is often, and perhaps usually, ignored or disguised on death certificates.

    This occurs for many reasons: to spare the surviving family members embarrassment, to limit liability exposure, to avoid tarnishing public perceptions of abortion, and simply because the death is no longer related to a criminal activity.

    Independent studies have confirmed the fact that the official statistics on maternal mortality following legal abortions are woefully inaccurate. Most recently, a single researcher examining public records was able to document 50 percent more deaths related to legal abortion than had been reported in the "official" government reports.2 The researcher, Kevin Sherlock, insists that even his efforts have uncovered only a small fraction of these misclassified abortion related deaths.

  3. #259
    Thanks for the memories princesslady may be famous one day princesslady may be famous one day princesslady's Avatar
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    Re: Should Abortion Be Legal or not lets debate

    wow. that made me laugh!! in your right mind, do you think someone would report an illigal abortion? no one knows. and here is proof.

    How many illegal abortions were there?

    No one knows. Why? For the obvious reason that illegal abortions are not reported. No one reports the illegal actions that they have done. In this case neither the abortionist nor the woman report the deed. Because of this, there are no records. There are no statistics, no numbers anywhere to report.

    No one knows! Therefore, if anyone tells you that there were X numbers of illegal abortions somewhere in a certain time, they are guessing.

    The pro-abortion leader may guess 1,000,000. Your pro-life spokesman may guess 100,000, but both are guessing.

    who ever told you are guessing.

    here is the link Chapter 27 - Illegal Abortions

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    Moderator Fling The Cow Champion, Abba The Fox Champion deodaclan18 may be famous one day deodaclan18 may be famous one day deodaclan18's Avatar
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    Re: Should Abortion Be Legal or not lets debate

    Wow, just like they say that they don't know how many died from legal abortions because they were putting alternate reasons on the death certificates. The chart even shows that deaths from illegal abortions were bottoming out before it was even legal, so you can't say it was legalized because there were too many illegal abortions because your link even says there were not many illegal abortions or at least not as many that they reported to be back then.

  5. #261
    Lady Barronmore Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna's Avatar
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    Re: Should Abortion Be Legal or not lets debate

    Quote Originally Posted by princesslady View Post
    ...States began liberalizing abortion laws in the 1960s, reflecting changed societal mores and, perhaps, the number of illegal abortions. Then in 1965, the Supreme Court introduced the idea of a "right to privacy" in Griswold v. Connecticut as it struck down laws that banned the sale of condoms to married people...


    it was a right of privacy and many illigal abortions happening!! it has been going on for years so it will never get banned.
    No, as the article you quoted clearly stated it was a "right to privacy" that equated abortion with condoms. Previous to that it was regulated at the State level and was only legal if the State said so. Some State laws may have been influenced by the number of illegal abortions (we don't know, that is what "perhaps" means) but that had no bearing on the Federal laws.

    If something going on for years was the only criteria for whether it would remain legal we would still be burning witches. (<- Halloween reference. )

    Oh, and princesslady. If you want to debunk someone's information you need to read your own link better. It actually disproves what you said.
    The United States, since the 1940s, has reported such deaths separately, so we know the number of deaths from illegal abortions.
    ...
    In 1973 there should have been a really sharp drop in women dying. The chart, however, shows that there was no such drop. The line didn’t even blip. The previous rate of decline actually slowed, to flatten out in the late 70s and 80s. According to the U.S. vital statistics, as anyone can see, legalization of abortion did not save almost any women’s lives.
    Congratulations, you just proved yourself wrong.


    @deodaclan: Interesting. Do you have a link to that article?

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  6. #262
    Thanks for the memories princesslady may be famous one day princesslady may be famous one day princesslady's Avatar
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    Re: Should Abortion Be Legal or not lets debate

    how did i prove myself wrong. no one knows. they camn all they want to about how many deaths of illigal abortions but who in ther right mind would do that. ansd what does me saying abortionw ill never gewt banned becasue it's the womans right and many illigal abortion deaths have to do with me proving wrong. now a days it's more sterile and more safer. less women die from laster in the last years. what are you talking about?

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  7. #263
    Moderator Fling The Cow Champion, Abba The Fox Champion deodaclan18 may be famous one day deodaclan18 may be famous one day deodaclan18's Avatar
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    Chapter 27 - Illegal Abortions

    Well put Arrianna.

    39 people died that year from illegal abortions and there were only like 100,000 illegal abortions the year before it was legalized. So how was it legalized because there were too many illegal abortions.
    Last edited by kedar; Oct 21, 2006 at 07:43 PM. Reason: Double posting.

  8. #264
    Lady Barronmore Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna's Avatar
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    Re: Should Abortion Be Legal or not lets debate

    Quote Originally Posted by princesslady View Post
    how did i prove myself wrong.
    Like this:

    Quote Originally Posted by princesslady View Post
    this thread will never end. abortion will always be legal. they madde it legal cuz of dangerous homemade abortions killing girls
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrianna View Post
    No, they made it legal because the courts determined that a women had the right to privacy concerning contraceptives and the surpreme court determined that abortions fit in that definition.
    Quote Originally Posted by princesslady View Post
    no!!! why do you think they did that. and yes they made it legal cuz homemade abortions. i wil prove it.
    Quote Originally Posted by princesslady View Post
    abortion will never be banned. sorry but it will never ever ever ever happen!!! it was legalized because it was a womans right and too many illegal abortions.
    Quote Originally Posted by princesslady View Post
    History...
    States began liberalizing abortion laws in the 1960s, reflecting changed societal mores and, perhaps, the number of illegal abortions. Then in 1965, the Supreme Court introduced the idea of a "right to privacy" in Griswold v. Connecticut as it struck down laws that banned the sale of condoms to married people.

    Abortion was legalized in 1973 when the U.S.Supreme Court ruled in Roe v. Wade that during the first trimester, a woman has the right to decide what happens to her body. This landmark decision rested on the "right to privacy" which was introduced in 1965.
    That's one.


    Quote Originally Posted by deodaclan18 View Post
    Well an article I read says their weren't as many illegal abortion deaths as people think and that there were the same number of deaths from legal abortions if not more after it was legalized.
    Quote Originally Posted by princesslady View Post
    wow. that made me laugh!! in your right mind, do you think someone would report an illigal abortion? no one knows. and here is proof.

    "How many illegal abortions were there?

    No one knows. Why? For the obvious reason that illegal abortions are not reported."
    ..and further down the same page.
    The United States, since the 1940s, has reported such deaths separately, so we know the number of deaths from illegal abortions.
    ...
    In 1973 there should have been a really sharp drop in women dying. The chart, however, shows that there was no such drop. The line didn’t even blip. The previous rate of decline actually slowed, to flatten out in the late 70s and 80s. According to the U.S. vital statistics, as anyone can see, legalization of abortion did not save almost any women’s lives.
    ..and that's two.

    The links you provided not only proved that I was correct that the legalization was from a right to privacy as concerning birth control it also proved deodaclan18 quote about how many women died from abortions previous and after legalizations. The numbers were dropping previous to legalization but haven't since.

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