Should illegal immigrants have rights in the US? - Page 5

*Ochi Gate* · May 17, 2007, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gigi2005

Some VISITORS like business man have a house in the US even though they aren't US citezens, but those houses are mostly for tempery use it's cheaper to have a house insted of going to a hotel evrytime there in the US.
.

there is a difference between VISITORS and people comming here to LIVE illegally!

Niimura Tooru · May 17, 2007, 04:07 PM

I don't think they should have rights here. i'm all for the legal ones, and even the ones who manage to make themselves legal by marriage and what not. i live in a town where alot of mexicans all live in one house and stand at the corner for construction companies to pick them up. its retarded.

gren · May 17, 2007, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atomik_sprout

I do believe that's what student visas are for. >_<

I mean really, people get them all the time. Kids from India come here to get thier med degree then they go back home when their visa is expired. That's how it usually works. Just like Abu Dahbi said--Visas rock.

Worker visa--student visa... Who cares? If all you intend on doing is working/schooling then leaving, don't become a citizen, and don't sneak around hiding your illegal....ness, just get a visa.

I don't know that most illegal immigrants plan on just "working/schooling then leaving"; if that were the case they probably would have just applied for visas in the first place. We're talking about people who plan to live in the U.S., as in for good. Besides, is it even possible for an illegal resident high school student to apply for a visa if he/she has already lived here for some time? Wouldn't even applying expose them and their families to possible deportation? I'm sure they wouldn't even take the chance.

*atomik_sprout* · May 17, 2007, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gren

I don't know that most illegal immigrants plan on just "working/schooling then leaving"; if that were the case they probably would have just applied for visas in the first place. We're talking about people who plan to live in the U.S., as in for good. Besides, is it even possible for an illegal resident high school student to apply for a visa if he/she has already lived here for some time? Wouldn't even applying expose them and their families to possible deportation? I'm sure they wouldn't even take the chance.

Y'see? That's something that should've been thought of before they came here--don't ya think? I mean, people can't really expect to just cross the border and then it's all gravy. Eventually someone gets caught. Eventually families will have to be broken up--which sucks if you're like 10 and you're mom and dad have to go back to wherever they came from, 'cause you're the only legal citizen in the household.

My point is this: If you want the same rights and benefits as everyone else, you have to go about doin' things the right way--AT THE BEGINNING. Like all legal immigrants do.

gren · May 17, 2007, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atomik_sprout

Y'see? That's something that should've been thought of before they came here--don't ya think? I mean, people can't really expect to just cross the border and then it's all gravy. Eventually someone gets caught. Eventually families will have to be broken up--which sucks if you're like 10 and you're mom and dad have to go back to wherever they came from, 'cause you're the only legal citizen in the household.

For school age students specifically, it's more a matter of what mom and dad decide; they don't have much of a choice on whether they enter the country legally or illegally. And if they were born here after their parents immigrated illegally, then they definitely didn't have a say. We can say all we want that the parents should have made a better decision, but it doesn't help the kids stuck in the middle of a bad situation. Don't get me wrong, illegal immigration is a crime by definition and I don't advocate rights for criminals, but when children and education are involved, it's not so black and white, at least not for me.

Quote:

My point is this: If you want the same rights and benefits as everyone else, you have to go about doin' things the right way--AT THE BEGINNING. Like all legal immigrants do.

But a large number of people are going to be denied citizenship, if for nothing more than the government is not going to let everyone in, as it would exhaust our resources. Do you realize how much debt this country is currently in? We're talking trillions. The taxes that illegals, if legal, would pay wouldn't even make a dent; more likely, their prescence and the possibility of more people relying on government aid would drive the debt up. It's nice to think that everyone who wanted to live in the U.S. gets a fair shake, but I just don't know that it's true. Even if you consider that a small number of applicants wouldn't pass the citizenship test or get denied for other reasons, there's still a lot that would, and that number would increase exponentially every year. Do you really think that the American government and people would just welcome everyone if they all followed the legal process? Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I don't think so.

*ketaro* · May 18, 2007, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gren

I don't know that most illegal immigrants plan on just "working/schooling then leaving"; if that were the case they probably would have just applied for visas

Getting a visa takes about 3 years now, but since the 9/11 attacks it has gotten hard to get a visa. Also, this process costs a lot of money, around $3,000. So, rather than wait that long and pay that much they come illegally. In addition, it is not their fault. Illegal immigrants are in high demand, many companies hire them because they are cheaper work force. If these companies wouldn't hire them, they wouldn't migrate to the USA in the first place. They would look somewhere else like Canada, Spain, or Australia.

*Tbaism* · May 18, 2007, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ketaro

Getting a visa takes about 3 years now, but since the 9/11 attacks it has gotten hard to get a visa. Also, this process costs a lot of money, around $3,000. So, rather than wait that long and pay that much they come illegally. In addition, it is not their fault. Illegal immigrants are in high demand, many companies hire them because they are cheaper work force. If these companies wouldn't hire them, they wouldn't migrate to the USA in the first place. They would look somewhere else like Canada, Spain, or Australia.

It isn't just because immigrants are cheap labor, but also because Americans aren't doing the crap jobs anymore. Plenty of businesses are being shut down because no one wants to be the next mushroom farmer for a few decades, or be the pool boy anymore.

I am not going to say this is a sufficient reason for them to migrate illegally, but it is true that we are the ones calling them over. Still though, 3 years and 3k isn't really that much of a sacrifice. Most of them are running and are taking the easy way out and most likely neglect our process.

As someone stated earlier, we won't just let anyone into our country and especially the number of people who can't surivive in their own.

*ketaro* · May 20, 2007, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tbaism

Still though, 3 years and 3k isn't really that much of a sacrifice. Most of them are running and are taking the easy way out and most likely neglect our process.

It is a big sacrifice, without a job try to raise $3,000 and you'll see how hard it is to raise that much money. Thus, they choose to come here illegaly.

*Tbaism* · May 20, 2007, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ketaro

It is a big sacrifice, without a job try to raise $3,000 and you'll see how hard it is to raise that much money. Thus, they choose to come here illegaly.

Well I have actually done that sort of thing plenty of times with ease, but that is besides the point.

As I said, they are merely running away from their troubles and comming here, while in turn neglecting the process. It is difficult to make money without a job obviously, but they can find work inside their own country if they are that desperate.

If they can survive during the time it takes to travel to our borders, hop into our country, travel to a certain location, find resources such as shelter and food, find a job, live only off the things they brought with them until they get paid, and live off the minimum wage, I am positive moving over here illegally isn't the only option.

If 3k and 3 years is such a sacrafice, I wonder how much they value their own lives and the firends and family that are travelling with them. Their chances on survival aren't that terrific considering quite a few possibilites.

They take in plenty of risks doing that and can shipped back to the place they left in a matter of days probably, so why not spend that time doing something else?

*atomik_sprout* · May 23, 2007, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gren

For school age students specifically, it's more a matter of what mom and dad decide; they don't have much of a choice on whether they enter the country legally or illegally. And if they were born here after their parents immigrated illegally, then they definitely didn't have a say. We can say all we want that the parents should have made a better decision, but it doesn't help the kids stuck in the middle of a bad situation. Don't get me wrong, illegal immigration is a crime by definition and I don't advocate rights for criminals, but when children and education are involved, it's not so black and white, at least not for me.

But a large number of people are going to be denied citizenship, if for nothing more than the government is not going to let everyone in, as it would exhaust our resources. Do you realize how much debt this country is currently in? We're talking trillions. The taxes that illegals, if legal, would pay wouldn't even make a dent; more likely, their prescence and the possibility of more people relying on government aid would drive the debt up. It's nice to think that everyone who wanted to live in the U.S. gets a fair shake, but I just don't know that it's true. Even if you consider that a small number of applicants wouldn't pass the citizenship test or get denied for other reasons, there's still a lot that would, and that number would increase exponentially every year. Do you really think that the American government and people would just welcome everyone if they all followed the legal process? Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I don't think so.

Of course not. I can agree with you on that. Not everyone gets in. And not everyone should, because it's like you said; it would exhaust our resources. And we are in MAD debt, I'll give you that one. BUT, why does that mean that we have to be fair to illegal immigrants? When I say fair, I don't mean be a general dick to all illegals, but fair as in equal benefits and stuff like that. I know maybe like one or two illegals myself, but if they get caught and/or deported, that's on them. That's a consequence they have to deal with. I feel bad for families that will have to suffer as well, but that's life. It's seldom fair.

*HolderOfTheDarkChalice* · May 23, 2007, 03:26 PM

i think that they should be sent back in shackles
if they dint have a green card screw them helping and
helping us out if they cant do it legally they should be
took back to Mexico or what ever and so should the kids
that are born here since they were born here illegally.

sounds harsh or more to the point but why should we do favours
for people who abuse our country's laws and stay here with out permission.
all pm's of hate etc. can be sent and i will respond with great
enthusiasm

May 17, 2007, 04:07 PM	#46 (permalink)
Niimura Tooru Newbie Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 23 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Credits: 110	Re: Should illegal immigrants have rights in the US? I don't think they should have rights here. i'm all for the legal ones, and even the ones who manage to make themselves legal by marriage and what not. i live in a town where alot of mexicans all live in one house and stand at the corner for construction companies to pick them up. its retarded. __________________ Love him, Hurt him, Make him bleed. Scream his name he's all you need.
Status: Offline

May 23, 2007, 03:26 PM	#55 (permalink)
HolderOfTheDarkChalice Tournaments Won: 1 King Of Darkness Join Date: May 2006 Location: someplace where the only light is the moon above Posts: 2,839 Thanks: 34 Thanked 33 Times in 31 Posts Credits: 5,599	Re: Should illegal immigrants have rights in the US? i think that they should be sent back in shackles if they dint have a green card screw them helping and helping us out if they cant do it legally they should be took back to Mexico or what ever and so should the kids that are born here since they were born here illegally. sounds harsh or more to the point but why should we do favours for people who abuse our country's laws and stay here with out permission. all pm's of hate etc. can be sent and i will respond with great enthusiasm __________________
Status: Offline

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