Arrianna

There is the difference between us then. If I knew someone who had committed murder and I knew they were guilty not only would it change my opinion I would turn them in.

There are a lot of arguments on that subject. There are quite possibly as many people saying we shouldn't execute people because it costs more as there are saying the opposite.

Go take a self-defense class and find out how easy it is. You learn a hundreds of ways to incapacitate someone but the instant the other has a gun they don't mean a thing. Those techniques for incapacitation are also very difficult and if done incorrectly literally hands you to them. As for shooting someone in a "safe place" forget it. Trying something like that just makes you a danger to others besides the assailant. That is why you are never supposed to pick up a gun in defense without the thought that you may have to kill with it. If you aren't willing to pull the trigger just put it back down and walk away.

It is impossible because no matter what you do to the system you are still dealing with the same people with all their human imperfections. No matter what you do the prisoners will still be sadistic, inhumane, murderers that enjoy the pain and suffering of others and the prison workers will still be fallible, normal, people. The people imprisoned corrupt the system by their very presence but if they weren't like that they wouldn't need to be locked up in the first place. The people working for the prison are fallible no matter how perfect the system and will make mistakes which can then be fatal. In a nut shell, until people are perfect it is impossible for the system to be and then we won't need it.

While I appreciate your stand on 1st degree murderers... that is what those who support the death penalty are nearly always discussing (there has been a little discussion on punishing serial rapists that way too). It is those who speak against execution that do so in general terms of killing anyone. That is the main argument against capitol punishment societally. "Killing is always wrong." Except it isn't and the instant you admit an exception such as self defense or defense of country you also have to admit to the need to defend the citizens even when you are not "at war".

Perfectly understandable. Enjoy the rest.

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atomik_sprout

Well said! It's like I said earlier: It's weird to know that if you knew someone who committed such a heinous act, you'd still support them. Were it my family/friend, they'd probably hate me, because I'd expect someone I knew to turn me in, were the shoe on the other foot.

Or don't buy a gun at all...

I agree! The system has never been, nor will it be perfect; neither are the people who uphold such laws and rules. None of us can say that we are infalliable or god-like, and until one of us can, there's no way that changing the system will do us any good.

Also, on the note of self-defense: Arrianna is absolutely correct! It takes mad training to learn how to successfully incapacitate your opponent with your hands, let alone a gun! And those who ARE that accurate with a projectile weapon have to train longer than those who are good with their empty fists! Being able to fire a weapon and immobilize an intruder/attacker without sending a stray bullet to someone else is about as easy as crossing the street blindfolded while carrying a dozed boxes stacked up on top of one another during rush hour!! It barely happens. Why do you think the police usually kill their assailants when they have weapons on them? Trust me, it's not completely on purpose. Police have to go through all sorts of weapons training before they can be issued a gun. They're told shoot to incapacitate, not kill and only when need be. Yet, when the need arises, most assailants are shot dead. Why? Because it's hard to shoot someone in a 'safe area' without them dying. Guns aren't meant to stun people; only stop them. If you wanna defend your home without worry of killing someone, you'd better invest in about thirty years of Karate training.

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Joe Mage

Thanks Arrianna and atomik_sprout. I had responded ta Luminous's post yesterday, but I never got ta post my response 'cause AO was havin' so much trouble and I got bumped off. What I was gonna say was along the same lines as u both and I agree wit the both of u. One of the points that I was tryin' ta get ta Luminous was that as long as humans r entered inta the equation there will always b mistakes and there will b those elements that will take avantage of the opportunities that arise from said mistakes and that if there were better ways of dealin' wit these types of elements; we would have found them already.

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Grimm Akumu

they did it to saddam hussein so if uve done somethin horrific like he did, hang em for all i care lol heartless but o well

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Scourge

Arrianna, Atomic Sprout, and Joe Mage are completely correct. We humans are flawed and there for will never be perfect so its very stupid to assume that by constantly "tweaking" the system that it will be perfect some day, but that fact is that day will NEVER come. Because people are imperfect creatures, we make mistakes, thus leaving the door open, even just for a short amount of time; some one will take advantage of that. The guards are only human and so will make mistakes, which the murdering type of convicts will take full advantage of and us it to kill some one.
Also on the note of Luminous statement of leaving them in prison with just four walls and a roof over their head with a two and a half inch metal door with nothing more then a little slit to drop food off, well guess what, we have those already, and oh guess what again, the people still manage to kill EVEN INSIDE THERE OWN CELL!! I have seen a lot of hand made weapons by prisoners and one of them was a sharpened stiraphome blade made out of a paper plate which was use to kill another in mate. So far the most remarkable weapon made was in fact a crossbow made out of news paper and other books, same as the arrow its self and uses the elastic waste band from his underwear to fire his arrow. The killer was able to kill a guard walking by, by shooting him in the neck from the little food slot.
Now you will say then why don’t they do a search for these things, well again, they do, but prisoners are very resourceful and will hide stuff in the damndest places. I will just let you think about that for a moment.
As said before, it is very hard to hit some one in a "safe spot" on the body with a gun. Not only do you risk of missing and hitting another person on accident, but if you do hit your attacker in the legs or arm you can still very well kill them as you also risk hitting an artery. Not that would matter much to me as I would defend my self with lethal force when necessary, but I would still much rather leave the shooting to the cops as they have better skill with a gun then I do.
I know a few hand to hand moves that will dislocate a persons arm and legs, and even break bone, but the fact is this, if I was taken by surprise which is most often the case in these murders then my fighting styles don’t mean anything. Especially if they have a gun.