tsurara

Communism was the biggest bogeyman of the 20th century. The Cold War had the world gripped in an ideological struggle of business against government and, somehow... a struggle between completely relative good and evil.

Looking back, the threat of Socialism seems greatly deflated. The Soviet Union has fallen, China is embracing small-scale privatization systems, and North Korea can barely feed itself... much less pose a major expansionist threat.

In retrospect: what exactly is it that we were afraid of? Are we better off for having "brought democracy" to the nations of the world and stamped out communism within our borders?

Is Socialism "evil"? Can it work? Should it be stamped out? Is it destined to collapse?

It's Red Scare time! Discuss

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Spike'sRose

It's not socialism itself that America was (or is) afraid of.... it's the people...

Leon Blum was elected Prime Minister of France in 1936. He was the Leader of the Popular Front, which was a coalition of socialists. Socialism was actually widely accepted, especially by the working classes in Europe. It wasn't accepted by the governments of Europe, however - Because it threatened their power... ~_^

The theories of socialist thinkers like Karl Marx were reevaluated many times, and misunderstood. The ideas may have worked if the theories were applied correctly. Lenin, for example, skipped over several parts of Marx's theory, and it ended up bringing chaos and poverty to Russia, rather that stability... And it also led to political power struggles, in which maniacs like Stalin come to power.

Therefore, Americans see the misrepresentation of socialism. I'm not a socialist, by any means, but I see where many working class peoole, who are struggling economically, would agree with the socialist views of private ownership in production... Especially in Europe in the early 1900's.

*sigh* I could go on and on... it's such an interesting topic! Thanks tsurara! ^_^

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LenMiyata

Grumble Grumble Grumble
Socialism, (or more specifically the works and ideas of Karl Marx) wasn't the issue with the 'Red Scare' and the building of the 'Iron Curtain'. To a certain extant, the west has advanced closer to these goals (such as the social welfare state, state funded education, medical support and retirement plans. The wide spread practice of stocks and mutual funds so that the workers can own a share of the means of production. Government regulation of the work place conditions, etc.) The issue was with Communism, (or more specifically, the derived works of Lenin) with the concept that an advanced elite can lead the uneducated masses on the path towards Marxist utopia, was the major issue. This concept was not limited to the leadership of willing and eager peasant populations, but was also extended to forcible include those who did not believe in the ideals of the elite leadership. (And the fact that during the 60s, 70s, and 80s, the USSR would hold annual military exercises in Eastern Europe simulating the rapid blitzkrieg invasion of Western Europe didn't do much to earn them favors...) The mistake that Lenin made was that he assumed that the elite leaders would share the same degree of idealism that he had, and didn't take into account what the effects of greed, lust for power, and the lack of accountability of their actions would have on his ideals...

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aceman67

Socialism would only work if everyone agreed and had the same motives and values. Too bad we don't live in a perfect world where such a place exists.

Even the "Democracy" that the States claims to be isn't really a democracy in the truest sense, its a Republic. Sure you guys elect your leaders, but its the leaders who decide what happens with the country. A true Democracy, the people decide everything.

Both forms of government in their truest sense cannot exist. One would require a perfect population and leadership, the other wouldn't be practical financially and logistically to implement.

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Astaroth

I love this subject because I have written so many papers on it and it cuts close to me since I am Russian and this was all happening during my parents era....
Socialism is a political system that denies the validity of property rights. Instead, it claims that all property is communally owned. Instead of being a variant of property rights, this is an invalidation of those rights. It destroys the concept of rights by invalidating their base in human life. Under socialism, control of property is put into the hands of society as a whole. The first effect of this is that people cannot be independent. They cannot live on their own efforts, because there goods will be stolen. This means that to live, they must act in accordance with the wishes of society. They are enslaved.The destruction of property rights has an additional effect, though. It destroys the efficacy of one's mind. Without the freedom to act in accordance with one's rational judgments, their minds are invalidated. There is no point to thinking if one cannot act on those thoughts. Since one thinks in order to promote one's life, socialism necessarily leads to an inability to promote one's life. You are required to act against your best judgment and against your best interest.Socialism is an evil political system. All political systems, though, rest on an ethical system. Socialism is not an exception. It rests on the moral system of collectivism. It is when collectivism is accepted as valid that socialism is possible. It is through collectivism that the crimes of socialism are ignored.

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Spike'sRose

Thank you for putting this in perspective - Especially since your parents had to deal with it!

Many Americans talk about this subject from an American view, not having been subjected to socialism. Myself included~
But that's how I always thought of socialism - It didn't seem right to me... It seemed like, as you stated, enslavement of not only one's belongings, but one's personal thoughts and feelings!

It's the American view of socialism that is being taught in schools... But not in a disagreeable way... Americans have to be "PC" and all that...
So whenever I brought up the fact that there is a difference between the theory and the practice of socialism up in class, I was always shot down by the teacher or fellow classmates. They always insisted about dissecting how socialism was supposed to work, and not really talking about what it did to the people.
Thanks for giving us a different view. ^_^

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Corvin

IMHO, socialism hasn't rights to exist. This political/ideological system is full of lies. They (socialists) try to get more supporters telling the stories about the "welfare state" which is full of "free" services for society just like free health care, education. In reality we pay for each more than everything is worth. Nextly, I would to say about taxes. Progressive taxes really build social-financial differences. That sound weird, but this is the true. Rich people(owner or companies, corporaions, factories, retails etc.) who are pay higer taxes, pays the smaller pays to their workers. Consequently socialism doesn't allow poor people to make them richer than they are. The economy is blocking by regulations and unclearly law. Nextly, socialism isn't good system for currency. Global economy, trade relations etc. show that strong currency is characteristic feature of capitallist countries (Chinese Republic, Singapore, Hongkong, USA- at Reagan era and XIX century, UK(today, UK isn't as capitallist country as Thaterch's era, but strentgh of British economy is inheritance of XVIII, XIX lessair faire) and countries heading to capitallism (the Indian rupia is getting stronger and stronger). Moreover, sociallist ideology destroys the humans psychologies, vide: post USSR countries, east, central Europe. Sociallism makes people more lazy and jealous.
Soccialist countries need big bureaucracy. Cosequentle the army of servants can green light to thief and make the law more comfortable for them.
In other words soccialism is harmful to social, global, economical, financial etc. harmony.

P.S.
European Union will collapse just like Soviet Union.

LenMiyata

Grumble Grumble Grumble

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Closing...

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aceman67

Actually closing...

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