Socialism... is it really that bad?

*lebasiara* · May 28, 2009, 04:16 PM

Socialism has been banned and criticized so many times and capitalism has been praised and blah blah... but... is socialism really that bad?
With capitalism yes people get the chance to get "ahead" and have more and better things for them.... moire and more things are produced... many of them things that people don't really need... but... in order for others to get money they have to sell... right? even if that means selling things that people don't need and don't help at all.... everything is about money money money and how I can get more and more to have more.... very productive....
Wouldn't it be better if everyone was at the same level? with no one higher or lower than the other? where the most important thing is your fellow and not how much you make? Wouldn't it be better if everyone would work for a common cause? this being to make the country progress as a whole? Where your basic needs are covered without getting worried about the high bills?
I look at the health services for example.... there is a lot of people here in the US who don't go to the doctor even if they need it because they can't afford it...
wouldn't it be better if that service was provided with little or no cost because everyone needs to be healthy in order to produce for the county? where everyone works for the benefit of the community and not for its selfish desires.... I dream about that world, I dream about it... and it doesn't seem that bad... socialism after all for me doesn't seem that bad... what do you think?

Zev · May 28, 2009, 04:34 PM

I mean Socialiam sounds great the way you just described it, however I think it would kill peoples drive to succeed and do great, because why would they need to if everyone made the same pay. Why go to college? Why not work at McDonalds instead of being a doctor with is much stressful. When you take out the money factor, why try harder to succeed?

I hear all day long, my customers say "I work hard for my money!" or "This is a horrible economy so you should give me a credit." So they want me to credit their account, btw doesn't work.

**LenMiyata** · May 28, 2009, 04:39 PM

Grumble Grumble Grumble

Now you have to be careful here... 'From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs' only works in a perfect world, and does not necessarily represent reality, with greed, ego, and fear are the driving motivational forces...

As a counter-part, there is always the famous 'Greed is Good' speech from the Hollywood movie 'Wall Street'...

American Rhetoric: Movie Speech: Wall Street - Gordon Gekko Addresses Teldar Shareholders - Greed is Good

Scourge · May 28, 2009, 09:37 PM

Socialism, in the real word, is a economy destroyer. As my brother and I say about Socialsm... "You eventualy run out of other peoples money."
There is no way for any one to better them selves. Every one is in fact equal, but not in a good way, every one is equal in that they are equally poor. With out big buisness and the wealthy that are controlled by private individuals who provide good paying jobs to the people and are rewarded for their hard work the working class will be devistated. A Gov. own buisness doesnt need to answer to any one. You are given a set wage and you can not do anything with in your power even by coming into work on time and busting your ass for your entire life and you will not get even a 1 cent incease.
There for this creates lazines do in part that there is no need do better or work hard as you are not getting anything out of it.
An example of this we can simply look to a country that is Socialistic. An employ can take as many breaks a day and hardly work and get paid the same amount as some one who works as hard as they can. Does that sound fair?
Socialism's free heath care for all. By far the biggest drain. A good example of this is Europe. Because health care is free, pharmacies and Dr's are EXSTREAMLY expensive to see. In many cases so expense that a normaly harmless desease or illness can suddenly become life threating simply because they are unable to get the right care they need. Not to mention the fact that the Gov. can take a look at you and say your life is not worth this X amount of money and basicly cut you off from any sort of medical help because of your chances of living is below an acceptable percent or because it only adds an exstra few months or years to your life (Time in which are very importent to you and your family and friends) but in the end condem you to death simply because they do not see the point in spending money on you.
Also because of the lazy factor, Dr's will be less qualifide to treat individuals simply because there is no need to better them selves as a profecinal.

Taxes, taxes every where your going to get screwed.
I have mention the exstreamly low pay for the people of a country and how expensive it all is to even get a simple check up. So not only are you getting paid little but you are also taxed VERY VERY VERY HEAVILY. We can once again look to Europe, as they have what they call, "Steath Taxes" in which case any transaction or dealing and the expenses that go through this get billed direcly to you. Now you can ask your self what is different then how it is now. Well one the take is only a small percentage here in the US, how ever, in Europe you not only have to pay that small fee, but then the tax do to gas, then the tax on how far away the item came from, another tax on handeling, there time and the time it takes, and any other expensess that may have accured, if a second individual gets involved then you have all those taxed doubled and then you get hit with yet another tax for them taxing you. Another words you end up paying easily ten times that compared to here in the US.
That and the fact that the standarded of living is rather poor.
Why do you think that those with money in Europe or any where else for that matter come here to the US for medical treatment, for buying items such as cars and the like. Because its cheaper. A fact of which is that when a new car is releaced in Europe, the vast magority of people can't even come close to get a good enough lone for the car, most of these new cars can be bought up very quickly here because we can afford them.

But wait, there is so much more because this is just the tip of the iceburge. Thats right the ride isant over yet, arnt we all lucky under Socialism rule?

The Gov. has finel say on everything, such as laws being a big one of them. Say Gov. has a law that you believe is unjust or unfair, well tough luck because you can bitch and mone and demostrate all you want untill the cows come home, and trust me, those cows are not coming home, you will just be spinning your wheels and waisting your breath.
Take the issue of gay marriage for example, if we were under a Socialistic state, the Gov. can just come in and say "Shut the fook up. Its not going to change, we are not making it legal, end of discution, and we will tax any one demostrating heavily for a violation." They can and will do that.

They can target individuals they believe who are having it "to good which is unfair to the rest of the populace because they can't have it either." That person will be fine heavily.

It just goes on and on, isant Socialism just fun?!

If you don't believe me then I highly suggest you start learning about Gov. Buisness, and Polotics. I can honestly say that the vast magority of people in the world don't know jack shit about even the basic concept of either of the three.

*lebasiara* · May 28, 2009, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scourge

Socialism, in the real word, is a economy destroyer. As my brother and I say about Socialsm... "You eventualy run out of other peoples money."
There is no way for any one to better them selves. Every one is in fact equal, but not in a good way, every one is equal in that they are equally poor. With out big buisness and the wealthy that are controlled by private individuals who provide good paying jobs to the people and are rewarded for their hard work the working class will be devistated. A Gov. own buisness doesnt need to answer to any one. You are given a set wage and you can not do anything with in your power even by coming into work on time and busting your ass for your entire life and you will not get even a 1 cent incease.
There for this creates lazines do in part that there is no need do better or work hard as you are not getting anything out of it.
An example of this we can simply look to a country that is Socialistic. An employ can take as many breaks a day and hardly work and get paid the same amount as some one who works as hard as they can. Does that sound fair?
Socialism's free heath care for all. By far the biggest drain. A good example of this is Europe. Because health care is free, pharmacies and Dr's are EXSTREAMLY expensive to see. In many cases so expense that a normaly harmless desease or illness can suddenly become life threating simply because they are unable to get the right care they need. Not to mention the fact that the Gov. can take a look at you and say your life is not worth this X amount of money and basicly cut you off from any sort of medical help because of your chances of living is belowe an acceptable percent or because it only adds an exstra few months or years to your life (Time in which are very importent to you and your family and friends) but in the end condem you to death simply because they do not see the point in spending money on you.
Also because of the lazy factor, Dr's will be less qualifide to treat individuals simply because there is no need to better them selves as a profecinal.

Taxes, taxes every where your going to get screwed.
I have mention the exstreamly low pay for the people of a country and how expensive it all is to even get a simple check up. So not only are you getting paid little but you are also taxed VERY VERY VERY HEAVILY. We can once again look to Europe, as they have what they call, "Steath Taxes" in which case any transaction or dealing and the expenses that go through this get billed direcly to you. Now you can ask your self what is different then how it is now. Well one the take is only a small percentage here in the US, how ever, in Europe you not only have to pay that small fee, but then the tax do to gas, then the tax on how far away the item came from, another tax on handeling, there time and the time it takes, and any other expensess that may have accured, if a second individual gets involved then you have all those taxed doubled and then you get hit with yet another tax for them taxing you. Another words you end up paying easily ten times that compared to here in the US.
That and the fact that the standarded of living is rather poor.
Why do you think that those with money in Europe or any where else for that matter come here to the US for medical treatment, for buying items such as cars and the like. Because its cheaper. A fact of which is that when a new care is releaced in Europe, the vast magority of people can't even come close to get a good enough lone for the car, most of these new cars can be bought up very quickly here because we can afford them.

But wait, there is so much more because this is just the tip of the iceburge. Thats right the ride isant over yet, arnt we all lucky under Socialism rule?

The Gov. has finel say on everything, such as laws being a big one of them. Say Gov. has a law that you believe is unjust or unfair, well tough luck because you can bitch and mone and demostrate all you want untill the cows come home, and trust me, those cows are not coming home, you will just be spinning your wheels and waisting your breath.
Take the issue of gay marriage for example, if we were under a Socialistic state, the Gov. can just come in and say "Shut the fook up." Its not going to change, we are not making it legal, end of discution, and we will tax any one demostrating heavily for a violation." They can and will do that.

They can target indiviual they believe who are having it "to good which is unfair to the rest of the populace because they can't have it either." That person will be fine heavily.

Isant Socialism just fun?!

The problem though I think is that the socialism that Europe has is based in money.... what if we get rid of all the money and we work for a common cause that is to take care of each other and to take care of the country we live in.
With the money ruling what you get is very capable people unable to get to the top because they can't afford an education that has become a big business... colleges are so expensive and getting loans always has a catch to it since money is the most important thing... scholarships are not easy to get and there is also money in between or the thought of 'what can I get from this person if I give him/her a scholarship...
it would be very nice if a family could go let's say to walmart and just grab whatever they need without paying with money but with work... and since all would be working to improve the country money wouldn't be needed.
Love to money is the beginning of all trouble.... if money didn't exist there would be no problems with loving money or loving power... since 'money gives power'
the socialism practiced today is corrupted by capitalism... the govts are getting full of people that want to get rich and powerful when the main goal should be to get the country going having all as middle class and not all as poor people as it happens today.
yes I rather have free care but not only the basic care... also specialists...
I don't think this would promote laziness but it would create real people... like for example a doctor wouldn't be preparing him/herself to be a 'good doctor to get a good pay' but to give a better and improved service to his/her country by helping to have a healthy population. I don't know... maybe I am asking to much from the human race...

Scourge · May 28, 2009, 10:07 PM

I stopped reading your respons from the start to this point in your message........."The problem though I think is that the socialism that Europe has is based in money.... what if we get rid of all the money and we work for a common cause"...........

The world DOES NOT work that way, Humans DO NOT work that way. Plain and simple. Any one who thinks other wise is eather one or both of two things, and they are a dreamer and or a fool.

This is why people say Socialism works on paper but fail misserably in practice.

And I am speaking from a family that came from a Socielistic state who moved to the US to get the hell away from that crap.

*lebasiara* · May 28, 2009, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scourge

I stopped reading your respons from the start to this point in your message........."The problem though I think is that the socialism that Europe has is based in money.... what if we get rid of all the money and we work for a common cause"...........

The world DOES NOT work that way, Humans DO NOT work that way. Plain and simple. Any one who thinks other wise is eather one or both of two things, and they are a dreamer and or a fool.

This is why people say Socialism works on paper but fail misserably in practice.

it is a shame you didn't finish reading... I am not as fool as you think I am... a dreamer maybe...the world has advanced to this point because of the dreamers that thought of things that were foolish for others... it has advanced thanks to the 'impossible' dreams men and women had...
I know humans we don't work that way... it is a shame... but we could...
if we would really put in practice what is on the paper it would be a lot better. If we would just put the 'me' and the 'I' aside it would works as it suppose to be.
Then it gives me the answer to my question: socialism is not bad... we just don't know how to put it in practice... or maybe we know how to do it but we just don't want to...

Scourge · May 28, 2009, 10:24 PM

You still fail to understand the basic elements involved. We have progressed technologicly because of dreamers this is true, but Humans and our behaviour has not changed sense the first Cromagnem walked the Earth and thus will not change and this is simply the Human element, there are a thousands of other aspects that need to be looked at as well and all of them become very and I mean very technical and they all have to work, because if one thing fails the whole thing fails and this is why Socialism fails.

May 28, 2009, 04:16 PM	#1 (permalink)
lebasiara Live and feel the music Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: 16th Note Treble Clef St, Bass Clef, Grand Staff 6438 Posts: 1,063 Thanks: 22 Thanked 26 Times in 23 Posts	Socialism... is it really that bad? Socialism has been banned and criticized so many times and capitalism has been praised and blah blah... but... is socialism really that bad? With capitalism yes people get the chance to get "ahead" and have more and better things for them.... moire and more things are produced... many of them things that people don't really need... but... in order for others to get money they have to sell... right? even if that means selling things that people don't need and don't help at all.... everything is about money money money and how I can get more and more to have more.... very productive.... Wouldn't it be better if everyone was at the same level? with no one higher or lower than the other? where the most important thing is your fellow and not how much you make? Wouldn't it be better if everyone would work for a common cause? this being to make the country progress as a whole? Where your basic needs are covered without getting worried about the high bills? I look at the health services for example.... there is a lot of people here in the US who don't go to the doctor even if they need it because they can't afford it... wouldn't it be better if that service was provided with little or no cost because everyone needs to be healthy in order to produce for the county? where everyone works for the benefit of the community and not for its selfish desires.... I dream about that world, I dream about it... and it doesn't seem that bad... socialism after all for me doesn't seem that bad... what do you think? __________________ Nothing less from Pyro ^_^ Great Sig ^_^ THANK YOU!!!! $C:\Documents and Settings\MARA\My Documents\My Pictures\Anime room\sigs\music_sig1 mia ^_^.jpg$ SCHOOL LOAD!!!!! AAAAAAAARGH!!!!!ONE MORE YEAR!!!! I CAN DO THIS!!!!!!
Status: Offline

May 28, 2009, 04:34 PM	#2 (permalink)
Zev ModZilla Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Missouri Posts: 491 Thanks: 12 Thanked 46 Times in 45 Posts	Re: Socialism... is it really that bad? I mean Socialiam sounds great the way you just described it, however I think it would kill peoples drive to succeed and do great, because why would they need to if everyone made the same pay. Why go to college? Why not work at McDonalds instead of being a doctor with is much stressful. When you take out the money factor, why try harder to succeed? I hear all day long, my customers say "I work hard for my money!" or "This is a horrible economy so you should give me a credit." So they want me to credit their account, btw doesn't work. __________________ Signature is a Sazzy original.
Status: Offline

May 28, 2009, 04:39 PM	#3 (permalink)
LenMiyata Grouchy Old Anime Otaku Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Silicon Valley, California Posts: 5,095 Thanks: 0 Thanked 145 Times in 125 Posts	Re: Socialism... is it really that bad? Grumble Grumble Grumble Now you have to be careful here... 'From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs' only works in a perfect world, and does not necessarily represent reality, with greed, ego, and fear are the driving motivational forces... As a counter-part, there is always the famous 'Greed is Good' speech from the Hollywood movie 'Wall Street'... American Rhetoric: Movie Speech: Wall Street - Gordon Gekko Addresses Teldar Shareholders - Greed is Good __________________ FAVOURITE THREADS EXPLAIN why, or risk an infraction. Rantings of a Grouchy Old Anime Otaku
Status: Offline

May 28, 2009, 09:37 PM	#4 (permalink)
Scourge BLAH BLAH YOUR FACE!! Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Oceanside CA Posts: 1,249 Thanks: 469 Thanked 166 Times in 147 Posts	Re: Socialism... is it really that bad? Socialism, in the real word, is a economy destroyer. As my brother and I say about Socialsm... "You eventualy run out of other peoples money." There is no way for any one to better them selves. Every one is in fact equal, but not in a good way, every one is equal in that they are equally poor. With out big buisness and the wealthy that are controlled by private individuals who provide good paying jobs to the people and are rewarded for their hard work the working class will be devistated. A Gov. own buisness doesnt need to answer to any one. You are given a set wage and you can not do anything with in your power even by coming into work on time and busting your ass for your entire life and you will not get even a 1 cent incease. There for this creates lazines do in part that there is no need do better or work hard as you are not getting anything out of it. An example of this we can simply look to a country that is Socialistic. An employ can take as many breaks a day and hardly work and get paid the same amount as some one who works as hard as they can. Does that sound fair? Socialism's free heath care for all. By far the biggest drain. A good example of this is Europe. Because health care is free, pharmacies and Dr's are EXSTREAMLY expensive to see. In many cases so expense that a normaly harmless desease or illness can suddenly become life threating simply because they are unable to get the right care they need. Not to mention the fact that the Gov. can take a look at you and say your life is not worth this X amount of money and basicly cut you off from any sort of medical help because of your chances of living is below an acceptable percent or because it only adds an exstra few months or years to your life (Time in which are very importent to you and your family and friends) but in the end condem you to death simply because they do not see the point in spending money on you. Also because of the lazy factor, Dr's will be less qualifide to treat individuals simply because there is no need to better them selves as a profecinal. Taxes, taxes every where your going to get screwed. I have mention the exstreamly low pay for the people of a country and how expensive it all is to even get a simple check up. So not only are you getting paid little but you are also taxed VERY VERY VERY HEAVILY. We can once again look to Europe, as they have what they call, "Steath Taxes" in which case any transaction or dealing and the expenses that go through this get billed direcly to you. Now you can ask your self what is different then how it is now. Well one the take is only a small percentage here in the US, how ever, in Europe you not only have to pay that small fee, but then the tax do to gas, then the tax on how far away the item came from, another tax on handeling, there time and the time it takes, and any other expensess that may have accured, if a second individual gets involved then you have all those taxed doubled and then you get hit with yet another tax for them taxing you. Another words you end up paying easily ten times that compared to here in the US. That and the fact that the standarded of living is rather poor. Why do you think that those with money in Europe or any where else for that matter come here to the US for medical treatment, for buying items such as cars and the like. Because its cheaper. A fact of which is that when a new car is releaced in Europe, the vast magority of people can't even come close to get a good enough lone for the car, most of these new cars can be bought up very quickly here because we can afford them. But wait, there is so much more because this is just the tip of the iceburge. Thats right the ride isant over yet, arnt we all lucky under Socialism rule? The Gov. has finel say on everything, such as laws being a big one of them. Say Gov. has a law that you believe is unjust or unfair, well tough luck because you can bitch and mone and demostrate all you want untill the cows come home, and trust me, those cows are not coming home, you will just be spinning your wheels and waisting your breath. Take the issue of gay marriage for example, if we were under a Socialistic state, the Gov. can just come in and say "Shut the fook up. Its not going to change, we are not making it legal, end of discution, and we will tax any one demostrating heavily for a violation." They can and will do that. They can target individuals they believe who are having it "to good which is unfair to the rest of the populace because they can't have it either." That person will be fine heavily. It just goes on and on, isant Socialism just fun?! If you don't believe me then I highly suggest you start learning about Gov. Buisness, and Polotics. I can honestly say that the vast magority of people in the world don't know jack shit about even the basic concept of either of the three. __________________ SEE THE FUTURE WHILE YOU STILL HAVE HUMAN EYES!! Last edited by Scourge; May 29, 2009 at 06:34 PM.
Status: Offline

May 28, 2009, 10:07 PM	#6 (permalink)
Scourge BLAH BLAH YOUR FACE!! Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Oceanside CA Posts: 1,249 Thanks: 469 Thanked 166 Times in 147 Posts	Re: Socialism... is it really that bad? I stopped reading your respons from the start to this point in your message........."The problem though I think is that the socialism that Europe has is based in money.... what if we get rid of all the money and we work for a common cause"........... The world DOES NOT work that way, Humans DO NOT work that way. Plain and simple. Any one who thinks other wise is eather one or both of two things, and they are a dreamer and or a fool. This is why people say Socialism works on paper but fail misserably in practice. And I am speaking from a family that came from a Socielistic state who moved to the US to get the hell away from that crap. __________________ SEE THE FUTURE WHILE YOU STILL HAVE HUMAN EYES!! Last edited by Scourge; May 28, 2009 at 10:19 PM.
Status: Offline

Welcome to AnimeOnline.net, your personal Anime Community!	Anime Online Rulez!

May 28, 2009, 10:24 PM	#8 (permalink)
Scourge BLAH BLAH YOUR FACE!! Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Oceanside CA Posts: 1,249 Thanks: 469 Thanked 166 Times in 147 Posts	Re: Socialism... is it really that bad? You still fail to understand the basic elements involved. We have progressed technologicly because of dreamers this is true, but Humans and our behaviour has not changed sense the first Cromagnem walked the Earth and thus will not change and this is simply the Human element, there are a thousands of other aspects that need to be looked at as well and all of them become very and I mean very technical and they all have to work, because if one thing fails the whole thing fails and this is why Socialism fails. __________________ SEE THE FUTURE WHILE YOU STILL HAVE HUMAN EYES!!
Status: Offline

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Socialism	tsurara	Debate and Discuss	8	Apr 26, 2008 11:55 AM