Suicide

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Originally Posted by Arrianna

Really? Based on what? I have seen a lot of documents outlining basic fundamental human rights and I don't believe I have ever seen that one included. Usually it is rather "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness", I don't see a right to die in there... funny that. Maybe you know a source I don't though.

Source please. I want the document or source of this hertofor unknown "right".

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I've got dibs on this one :D:

You're referencing the US Constitution. I'm not all too sure how it works in other nations but the purpose is the same. Governments were formed initially with the intent to uphold the basic unalienable rights of citizens during the time in which they were alive and lived in a country's boundaries. Blah blah blah.

There is no document that says "Oh you can't kill yourself, Uncle Sam needs you to join the military" or whatever. (And no there isn't some document out there that says "go on kill yourself, lessen the taxes for everyone else,")
So long as the action of killing yourself does not impede on the rights granted another citizen, technically there should be no reason why the law would stop you.

And suicide could be a right I suppose but regardless of whether it is or not, it's a choice an individual makes. Me personally, I don't particularly care one way or another about laws. As long as I'm not endagering anyone else there's no reason why I can't or won't go about my business and do whatever I please. This includes suicide.

And PS:
There's something called the Death with Dignity Act. I know it's recognized in oregon not sure about everyone else, but basically those that are terminally ill can legally kill themselves and seek assistance if necessary.
I don't think the act should exist but hey that's one more right I have :rolleyes1::D: (If I move to Oregon):(:

You are correct that I was speaking of legal "rights" given by law. It was in response to "Suicide is a fundamental human right." However fundamental human rights as recognized by society come from two sources, god/s' laws and man's laws. Neither one of them recognize a right to commit suicide and in fact condemn it thoroughly. BTW there are plenty of legal "documents" that say you cannot kill yourself. While attempted suicide has been decriminalized most places due to the difficulty in prosecuting those who succeed (yes, you may laugh) laws are such that someone who tries and fails can be detained in a psychiatric facility until they are determined to no longer be a danger to themselves.

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Originally Posted by Tula

And suicide could be a right I suppose but regardless of whether it is or not, it's a choice an individual makes.

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The right to make a choice does not also automatically bestow the choice made also being correct or legal. You can choose to do anything you want but you cannot choose the consequences or right vs wrongness of it, good vs evil. In other words there is a right to choose your actions but not a right to "do" anything you want. Again, what you do effects others (yes, including suicide no matter how much you may selfishly claim otherwise) and our actions are right or wrong not just by how it effects our lives but others. You can choose to lie, steal, and cheat but that does not make them right. Now explain to me why murder should be legal. What right has been endowed upon any of us that gives us the right to decide who lives and dies?

Give me a source of a "right" to kill yourself... and no, this is not talking about euthanasia as you already well know, but suicide. Saying 'because I want it to be' is a legitimate opinion but not a legitimate basis for setting standards unless you are 6 years old.

what if some one is truly out of there miund and they belive that they are a true burden on this world? What if they really do NEED to die?!?!?!? how would we say that

oh no you can't die! you have to stay here cus" its the right thing to do"??????????
huh how could we justify that ?!?!?
some mighht say that it is "murder with out a cause" or "murder is never justified " huh? well ithink one should truly have the right to do anything!!! and not just the simple "oh well i want to go to college " I belive that a person should have the right to commit suicide if they really want to whos to stop it muder IS murder weather we like it or not but it IS gonna happen wheather we like ot or not!!!!

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Originally Posted by CBtay01

what if some one is truly out of there miund and they belive that they are a true burden on this world?

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If they are out of their mind what legal right do they have to make that decision? Last I checked people who are legitimately insane don't have any legal rights to make decisions anyway concerning anything let alone that.

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Originally Posted by CBtay01

What if they really do NEED to die?!?!?!?

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And who gets to decide that? What right do they have to do so? Give me sources and legal rights that say you personally, or anyone/everyone else does.

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Originally Posted by CBtay01

well ithink one should truly have the right to do anything!!!

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And now we're at that 6 year old mentality. "I can do it cause I wanna!" You know when my child says that I send him to his room.

As for it happening anyway that has nothing to do with whether or not you have a right to. Based on that everything from rape to embezzlement would be a right as well, they happen anyway. Try again. Source of right please.

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" However fundamental human rights as recognized by society come from two sources, god/s' laws and man's laws. Neither one of them recognize a right to commit suicide and in fact condemn it thoroughly.

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How exactly does society recognize "god/s laws"? Holy MAN MADE documents? Please... No one on this site or anywhere else, is fit to tell me what my God given rights are. God granted me the right to do everything I am humanly capable of. Period. That includes homicide... and any other "icide" you can think of. I have been given enough sense to know what is right or wrong. I believe that you are following God's law as long as you believe you are doing everything in righteousness.

From a moral standpoint... that is likely circumstantial. Everything has its place, and can be misused... in my opinion. In most cases I find suicide a cop out. But If my mother was in her last stages of terminal illness and were suffering... Or if my child were brain dead... If my father had lost his mind beyond recognizing anything in reality... don't think for one second that I wouldn't assist a suicide. My parents have TOLD me they would want that.

Just as if I felt someone were endangering my child's, or my life.... If I could.... I'd kill them. Flat out.

And my God.... would forgive me. Its the lesser of evils. Its unfortunate, but not wrong. And EVERYTHING HAS A CONSEQUENCE. Consequences don't mean your actions were wrong or right. Or that you had no right to choose said action. Its just the way things are.

suicide is just another part of life ,some people
just see it as there solution to a failed life , if there
sick and wants to do it should be left to god since he
is the only one who can say if its right or wrong.

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Originally Posted by Peach_follows

How exactly does society recognize "god/s laws"? ... I believe that you are following God's law as long as you believe you are doing everything in righteousness.

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First, the "laws" of each religious belief are well documented as is the historical significance of each of them on the formation of legal laws. It doesn't matter if you don't like it they still exist. While there are religions that do recognize the "right" of choice name one that does not also differentiate between right and wrong choices. They are not your "right" to commit only your "right" to choose. There is a significant difference.

Second, your logic is the same used by jihadists and anyone else who kills for religion. They believe they are doing it in righteousness. It is also the realm of the homicidally insane. It is societies duty to separate such beliefs from legitimate cause. Hence the reason we have laws on the subject or any other at all. All the same if you think for one moment that society does not recognize God's laws in determining laws just ask all the people who believe that capitol punishment is wrong because we "shall not kill".

Third, we are not speaking of assisted suicide, euthanasia, that is an argument for another day. It has been clear from the get go that this is about some people believing that they should have a right to be able to kill themselves for any reason and it is no ones business nor would it effect anyone else. I am merely pointing out the flaws in this concept and requiring them to give something to back their view up other then "I want to". "Rights" are not built on such logic nor should they be.

A source other then "I wanna". Come on, someone? If it cannot be given I shall assume my point is made.

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Originally Posted by Arrianna

A source other then "I wanna". Come on, someone? If it cannot be given I shall assume my point is made.

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You've been given plenty of "points", you just refuse to accept anything other than what's written in a dusty book of law in the back of a forgotten archive.
No doubt you'll come back at me with a "Source?" again but oh well...

What I'd like you to offer an acceptable explanation about is to the rather twisted logic that we, as humans, wouldn't hold unquestionable rights to our own lives (and therefore to the ending of them).