Thread: Suicide

You do realize what you're doing over here, Arrianna? You're retaliating to a, I quote, "I wanna" post with a "I don't want you to", which is the same you claim everyone else doing but in reverse.

Until a valid reason, one not based on selfishness or just "It's wrong because someone says so", I'll assume my point being made

Originally Posted by Shonen

You do realize what you're doing over here, Arrianna? You're retaliating to a, I quote, "I wanna" post with a "I don't want you to"

Not at all. I have given multiple reasons none of which have actually included my personal opinion... surprise!
You choosing not to address them or their validity has nothing to do with me or the subject as it has been addressed.

Originally Posted by Shonen

I'll assume my point being made

The point you have made is that you have no retort to my points other then you wish it to be all right, so yes, since that was the opinion I have been responding to your point is made. It just still remains completely unvalidated by anything other then the "I wanna" that has been mentioned.



Talk about calling night day and day night. Saying that society has an interest in laws about someone not killing themselves because it traumatizes everyone who knows them and often effects those around them for the rest of their lives is selfish yet believing you should be able to kill yourself with no care or concern for anyone else isn't? Dude, you need to go read a dictionary.

self⋅ish  /ˈsɛlfɪʃ/
–adjective
1.devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.
2.characterized by or manifesting concern or care only for oneself: selfish motives.
Origin:
1630–40; self + -ish 1

—Synonyms
1. self-interested, self-seeking, egoistic; illiberal, parsimonious, stingy.
Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2009.

You may wish to look some words up before using them so you can do so correctly, words like acceptable, unquestionable, and now selfish. Mind you, I am fully aware you have used them in an attempt to make my points appear invalid through the automatic emotional response such words evoke, however I have been in to many of these debates to be caught by such tactics. If you want to use words like that I suggest you be able to back them up instead of providing me with ones so easily proven incorrect.

Oh and just to make the definitions complete, you said earlier "offer an acceptable explanation".

ac⋅cept⋅a⋅ble  /ækˈsɛptəbəl/
–adjective
1.capable or worthy of being accepted.
2.pleasing to the receiver; satisfactory; agreeable; welcome.
3.meeting only minimum requirements; barely adequate: an acceptable performance.
4.capable of being endured; tolerable; bearable: acceptable levels of radiation.
Origin:
1350–1400; ME < LL acceptābilis. See accept, -able

—Related forms
ac⋅cept⋅a⋅bil⋅i⋅ty, ac⋅cept⋅a⋅ble⋅ness, noun
ac⋅cept⋅a⋅bly, adverb

Since the idea of suicide being wrong is capable and worthy of being accepted by both society and by those who write laws (and those on this site who have agreed and 'thanked' the posts on the subject) I would say it easily qualifies even if you personally do not find it acceptable. As such I have already done so, thank you.

I've been sitting on this for awhile

Originally Posted by Arrianna

You are correct that I was speaking of legal "rights" given by law. It was in response to "Suicide is a fundamental human right." However fundamental human rights as recognized by society come from two sources, god/s' laws and man's laws. Neither one of them recognize a right to commit suicide and in fact condemn it thoroughly. BTW there are plenty of legal "documents" that say you cannot kill yourself. While attempted suicide has been decriminalized most places due to the difficulty in prosecuting those who succeed (yes, you may laugh) laws are such that someone who tries and fails can be detained in a psychiatric facility until they are determined to no longer be a danger to themselves.

God's law. . . . . That's a little problematic. God and any religious belief stems from culture. (As in one of the things that makes up a culture is religious belief and lack thereof.) If you want to say that people as an entire population do not have a right to commit suicide because of God's law then you'd have to also prove to every one else in the world (assuming you could convince me) that there is at least one god and that the god that does exist is the correct one to acknowledge.
Taking a look at how this thred progressed, I'm not the only opposition.

Man's laws are created with the intent to protect a perons's individual rights. Not every form of government or nation has gotten right but . . .
it's like 1 step forward and 3 steps back. I imagine the same is with other forms of government.

Specifically on the topic of life and suicide, regardless of what any document any law, etc says, I know my rights. I'm not talking about stealing cheating, forgery, that sort of thing. I'm talking about the right to choice.
No paper document, politician, law, can neither take it from me or give it to me.
I get the feeling that for the sake of having an arguement you raised this idea. (Cause I hope in real life you would actually agree with me on this. If you don't . . . your choice.)

Originally Posted by Arrianna

The right to make a choice does not also automatically bestow the choice made also being correct or legal. You can choose to do anything you want but you cannot choose the consequences or right vs wrongness of it, good vs evil. In other words there is a right to choose your actions but not a right to "do" anything you want. Again, what you do effects others (yes, including suicide no matter how much you may selfishly claim otherwise) and our actions are right or wrong not just by how it effects our lives but others. You can choose to lie, steal, and cheat but that does not make them right. Now explain to me why murder should be legal. What right has been endowed upon any of us that gives us the right to decide who lives and dies?

Let's see what I've got to work with here . . .
A not all choices are correct. . . I'll buy it.
I can choose to do anything I want. . . I'll buy it.
I cannot choose the consequences of my choice. . . . . Sorry. That's just not true.
There is a right to choose and a right to do. There I fixed that for you.
What I do does sometimes affect others.
My actions are not right or wrong depending on how it affects others. . . That's a load crap.

Example: There out there in the world exists a man that has a daughter that needs a surgery. He cannot afford the surgery so steals money from a bank. Stealing is a crime. If an officer of the law chooses to do his job and arrest the culprit he is choosing to deny him access to his daughter and is in effect stealing valuable time he has with her.
Is the police officer correct for doing his job. Or is he wrong because the father had good intent?
Or do we fault the doctor for asking for a high price?

The point I'm making is, a choice you make regardless of whether or not you think the choice is right is not dependent on how it affects others. It is right, if you think it is. However you weigh that out is totally up to you.

As for murder let me warn you now my views on it are not the . . . norm.
Murders are committed all the time. Whether it's for the good of an individual, the good of a society, or as a means to get rid of the competition, it is the practice of taking life from someone that can choose to live if they so desire. Unless a person says go ahead kill me, it's immoral.
Suicide is different. You are choosing to take your own life. You can call it selfish if you want. Maybe it is. But to take your own life is a choice that you and only you can make.

Originally Posted by Arrianna

Give me a source of a "right" to kill yourself... and no, this is not talking about euthanasia as you already well know, but suicide. Saying 'because I want it to be' is a legitimate opinion but not a legitimate basis for setting standards unless you are 6 years old.

Again I've got no source and I DO NOT need one.
For clarity, I DO NOT need one, have never needed one, nor will I require one in the future.
It is not an opinion I hold; it is fact.
The right to choose is not ever something you can take away from a person. You keep on asking for proof or some document that supports what I and some others here are saying but there is not one that disagrees or agrees with me.
You are alive by choice. Is there a document or law out there that says you can live? Do you need permission to live? No. Do you need permission to die? Nope.
Obviously you just like me tend do things without alerting the authorities to ask if this choice is affecting someone else.

Originally Posted by Peach_follows

How exactly does society recognize "god/s laws"? Holy MAN MADE documents? Please... No one on this site or anywhere else, is fit to tell me what my God given rights are. God granted me the right to do everything I am humanly capable of. Period. That includes homicide... and any other "icide" you can think of. I have been given enough sense to know what is right or wrong. I believe that you are following God's law as long as you believe you are doing everything in righteousness.

From a moral standpoint... that is likely circumstantial. Everything has its place, and can be misused... in my opinion. In most cases I find suicide a cop out. But If my mother was in her last stages of terminal illness and were suffering... Or if my child were brain dead... If my father had lost his mind beyond recognizing anything in reality... don't think for one second that I wouldn't assist a suicide. My parents have TOLD me they would want that.

Just as if I felt someone were endangering my child's, or my life.... If I could.... I'd kill them. Flat out.

And my God.... would forgive me. Its the lesser of evils. Its unfortunate, but not wrong. And EVERYTHING HAS A CONSEQUENCE. Consequences don't mean your actions were wrong or right. Or that you had no right to choose said action. Its just the way things are.

Can I call you Peaches?
Whatever, I love you.

Originally Posted by Arrianna

It just still remains completely unvalidated by anything other then the "I wanna" that has been mentioned.

As does your "I don't want you to".

Originally Posted by Arrianna

Dude, you need to go read a dictionary.

Oh, so not allowing someone close to you commit suicide as their last resort because you would feel bad isn't selfish at all?

Originally Posted by Arrianna

You may wish to look some words up before using them so you can do so correctly, words like acceptable, unquestionable, and now selfish

There's nothing wrong with my choice of words and you know it. I do find it amusing though that you still have your habit of making these little personal attacks on everyone who "dares" to disagree with you.

Originally Posted by Arrianna

Mind you, I am fully aware you have used them in an attempt to make my points appear invalid through the automatic emotional response such words evoke, however I have been in to many of these debates to be caught by such tactics.

Riiiight.... First of all, your pretty little analysis is off by a mile. Secondly, it's a debate thread, not a strategy game

As for the rest, scrolling up and reading what Tula said might do the trick

this is a really touchy subject for me and alot of other people.

the thing that bugs me is that many people play it off for the attention factor which in alot of cases is not the reason why someone does this. suicide comes around for alot of different reasons, though i do believe that for the most part people who are more likley to commit suicide either tend to depressed or have some form of depression, or like this new "emo" trend for attention. That in itself pushes other plausable reason for it, other than "hey hes/shes emo let them go ahead and kill themselves", or a cowards way out of something.

while many people have different oppinions its one thing to go through, or watch a close friend go through a process of wanting to kill themselves. Im not gonna lie if someone wants to kill themselves and they have no other opition, thats their choice so they can do it. While others want help and someone writes them off with beliefs or trend attention or some such it hurts someone who actually need mental or emotional help from something thats wrong with their body in some way.


Ive had many a friend who has commited suicide for one reason or another from a bad childhood, or severe depression. If someone tells you they want to commite suicide, its not really fair to go off into a religious rant about killing ones self that could make them feel even worse for their personal h-e double hockey sticks. telling someone their a coward, for possibility of no other option in the way of making themselves better really says something more about the person saying it, than one whos commiting suicide.
If somone ends up telling you about it, would u stick with what youve been doing, or help them as best you can? I mean you dont really know whats going on in their lives? or have any idea on whats wrong with them on the inside, anymore than the do?

Originally Posted by Arrianna

So you would have no problem with executing everyone in a maximum security prison? It would save a ton of money and with "6 billion+ people on this planet, a few less won't make a big difference."

That's a strange connection to make. Killing someone else =/= killing yourself.
By saying that I don't believe in the sanctity of life I meant that I don't believe life is sacred and can't be touched upon. The whole idea is a fantasy anyway. Life has never been sacred and it (most likely) never will be. I see the whole concept as a religious fundamentalist idea to try make euthanasia, abortion and even contraception illegal.

Now that in no way has anything to do with making light of human/animal/etc. life. Why always go from one extreme to another? Euthanasia, abortion and contraception are to be regulated to prevent abuse just like many other things we have laws for.

There's good a reason church and state are kept separate from each other in many modern countries.

Originally Posted by dark angel swordsman

Same thing goes with the "I'm gonna kill you." phrase. People are scared that some psycho might actually do that. Emotions drive a person's thoughts, do they not?

yes this is true but let me tell you a littel story ive bin in a relation ship that whas like that my x told me if i left her she would kill her self i told her to do it but (sinse we had a wile dating i new that she was only blufing) then after that i was able to take the knife she had and calmele talk to her and help her whit her probelemd

true story