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Thread: Suicide

  1. #57
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    Re: Suicide

    i have no reall thought on suicide it depends on who your talking about and ther back ground like........bush if he wanted to commit suicied iwouldent blame him but like someone whos got it good without any problems then they have issues
    i live in a virtual world....catch me if u can

  2. #58
    Messenger of Despair Hive Hero Champion dark angel swordsman may be famous one day dark angel swordsman may be famous one day dark angel swordsman's Avatar
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    Re: Suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Trojan man View Post
    yes this is true but let me tell you a littel story ive bin in a relation ship that whas like that my x told me if i left her she would kill her self i told her to do it but (sinse we had a wile dating i new that she was only blufing) then after that i was able to take the knife she had and calmele talk to her and help her whit her probelemd

    true story
    I'd agree with you on that, However your grammar prevents me from taking your situation seriously.
    Most people are bluffing by the way.
    Scared...A lot of people would be too scared.
    I know a bunch of people who decided not to just because of that fact.
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  3. #59
    Lady Barronmore Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna has become well known Arrianna's Avatar
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    Re: Suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Tula View Post
    I've been sitting on this for awhile
    God's law. . . . . That's a little problematic. God and any religious belief stems from culture.
    Yes and each culture has it's own standards. I did not set it nor require a world wide consensus, I merely pointed out the source of such laws no matter the culture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tula View Post
    Let's see what I've got to work with here . . .
    A not all choices are correct. . . I'll buy it.
    I can choose to do anything I want. . . I'll buy it.
    I cannot choose the consequences of my choice. . . . . Sorry. That's just not true.
    There is a right to choose and a right to do. There I fixed that for you.
    What I do does sometimes affect others.
    My actions are not right or wrong depending on how it affects others. . . That's a load crap.
    There is no need to correct it it was completely correct to begin with. Whether you like it or not you cannot choose your consequences only your choices and believing otherwise only sets you up for failure and misery. Believing you can do the same thing and get a different result is considered a sign of delusion. It is no different then a woman who marries a guy who has cheated on every woman he has been with yet believes that he would never do that to her. Her choice, she doesn't choose the consequence, and she deludes herself as to what the result will be.

    The only load of crap involved is thinking that what you do does not effect others, have consequences for others, or that laws are based on said consequences. Name one law in the criminal courts that is not based on that? Your reasons (and example) don't matter. Wrong is still wrong no matter what your reason. Just because someone did something to you does not justify you turning around and doing the same thing. I believe the saying is two wrongs don't make a right.

    Fact: you have a right to choose. Fact: you do not have the right to do anything you want. Consequences follow whether you want them or not. If your only basis for your choices is "I want to" than what you have is personal selfishness not rights or morality (conformity to rules of 'right' conduct). As I said before that is the mentality of my 6 year old not a thinking, reasonable adult. The problem is when my 6 year old does it he is sent to his room and when an adult does it there are lasting consequences to not just their lives but all those around them. Societies fall on such decisions when sufficiently widespread.


    @Shonen: That's alright, as I said you have made your position clear as well as your "point". I am not expecting you to actually debate my rebuttals. In fact your "yeah well, you too" responses have given me the chuckle I needed at the end of a long day.

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  4. #60
    Zev
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    Re: Suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by dark angel swordsman View Post
    I'd agree with you on that, However your grammar prevents me from taking your situation seriously.
    lol I agree with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by dark angel swordsman View Post
    Most people are bluffing by the way.
    Scared...A lot of people would be too scared.
    I know a bunch of people who decided not to just because of that fact.
    Yeah, most people want the attention, or they need something to hold over your head. Like "I am going to kill myself if you leave me" and so on.

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  5. #61
    Otaku Tula is off to a good start Tula's Avatar
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    Re: Suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrianna View Post
    There is no need to correct it it was completely correct to begin with. Whether you like it or not you cannot choose your consequences only your choices and believing otherwise only sets you up for failure and misery. Believing you can do the same thing and get a different result is considered a sign of delusion. It is no different then a woman who marries a guy who has cheated on every woman he has been with yet believes that he would never do that to her. Her choice, she doesn't choose the consequence, and she deludes herself as to what the result will be.
    Most people make choices that will best yield the results they desire.

    Example:
    I want toast for breakfast.
    I can choose to put a slice of bread in a toaster.
    If I put the bread in a toaster, I am choosing to do something that will yield the best possible outcome or the outcome closest to what I want.

    For more complexities in life, that example does still work, but it probably involves a lot more manipulation of circumstances and making the best of choices.
    As for the man that cheats on the woman. . . that's a little more difficult. The unexpected or unknown in any given situation is the human factor. For most instances you can't predict with complete certainty what a human will do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrianna View Post
    The only load of crap involved is thinking that what you do does not effect others, have consequences for others, or that laws are based on said consequences. Name one law in the criminal courts that is not based on that? Your reasons (and example) don't matter. Wrong is still wrong no matter what your reason. Just because someone did something to you does not justify you turning around and doing the same thing. I believe the saying is two wrongs don't make a right.
    I do believe that for some of the choices I make, it is possible other(s) may be affected. If the choice has to do with suicide I can guarantee I won't care how it affects others. Totally different point to make.
    But since you want to go into what laws are based on how about the laws that attempt to take away choice?
    There are laws that protect an individual's right to choice and other laws that try to strip it away. It's like I said before: 1 step forward, 3 steps back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrianna View Post
    Fact: you have a right to choose. Fact: you do not have the right to do anything you want. Consequences follow whether you want them or not. If your only basis for your choices is "I want to" than what you have is personal selfishness not rights or morality (conformity to rules of 'right' conduct). As I said before that is the mentality of my 6 year old not a thinking, reasonable adult. The problem is when my 6 year old does it he is sent to his room and when an adult does it there are lasting consequences to not just their lives but all those around them. Societies fall on such decisions when sufficiently widespread.
    It has been said that something as small as the flutter of a butterfly's wing can ultimately cause a typhoon halfway around the world.
    - Chaos Theory

    With absolute certainty, never will there be a time when you are 100% sure of exactly who your choices will affect and how.
    In my recent adulthood this is the truth I have stumbled upon. It's sound in it's reasoning, and I've reached it by way of experience.
    On the topic of suicide, most of which if committed will not affect the entire human population, you can almost imagine how infinitely small the impact will be.

    You argue that in making the decision to commit suicide a person is behaving in a selfish manner. You mention the people it will affect.
    But ultimately you do not know that if any one person in the world decided to commit a suicide, all the individuals that would be affected. Disregard the people you know personally or the ones you think you know personally. Can you really honestly then say with absolute certainty that an individual you've never before imagined should not commit suicide on the sole basis that it will affect someone else? The answer is no.
    Since you cannot be sure that there are individuals (or how many) exist in the world whose suicide would not affect another person 9or persons) then you cannot claim that it is an act of selfishness for one and all that decide to contemplate and or commit the act.

    And what about those that commit suicide out of selflessness?
    What about people that jump infront of moving vehicles to save a child? Are they selfish?

  6. #62
    Otaku Franco is off to a good start Franco's Avatar
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    Re: Suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Tula View Post
    With absolute certainty, never will there be a time when you are 100% sure of exactly who your choices will affect and how.
    In my recent adulthood this is the truth I have stumbled upon. It's sound in it's reasoning, and I've reached it by way of experience.
    On the topic of suicide, most of which if committed will not affect the entire human population, you can almost imagine how infinitely small the impact will be.

    You argue that in making the decision to commit suicide a person is behaving in a selfish manner. You mention the people it will affect.
    But ultimately you do not know that if any one person in the world decided to commit a suicide, all the individuals that would be affected. Disregard the people you know personally or the ones you think you know personally. Can you really honestly then say with absolute certainty that an individual you've never before imagined should not commit suicide on the sole basis that it will affect someone else? The answer is no.
    Since you cannot be sure that there are individuals (or how many) exist in the world whose suicide would not affect another person 9or persons) then you cannot claim that it is an act of selfishness for one and all that decide to contemplate and or commit the act.

    And what about those that commit suicide out of selflessness?
    What about people that jump infront of moving vehicles to save a child? Are they selfish?
    this arguement could go along with the notion of why do I even have to get out of bed, I am a insignificant cog in the machine, so what is the point of doing anything if no one will realize that I am here, why try, why do anything if it has no meaning? every life has meaning, I could stand here on a soap box and preach about why you shouldn't off yourself. hell I have more than once thought about killing myself, but I have realized that it is easy to kill yourself, but it is harder to live, and I have chosen to live, life might be hard, but it is my life and I will not sell my life short, who cares if no one notices me or I don't date that hot girl, etc., etc. I am here and I will live, not to also mention that when one is in that suicidual state of mind, it will blind you from realizing just who will miss you. so don't try to sell off a life as being so insignificant, that is what I want to say as regards to what you said about suicide, hell that is why I went back to school and will be attending csun in the fall, because i know I can do better and I will, who knows I could be a famous writer, or a historian someday, whose works might influence the world someday or even another person who commited suicide could have cured cancer, you don't know that either, do you, that could have just as much impact in the world as well.

    as for the self sacrafice, that is not suicide because you are trying to save another life, not just take away only yours, that is a selfish death, not saving another life and just killing your self is a waste, at least if you die while trying to save another person, at least you did not die in vain.

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  8. #63
    Messenger of Despair Hive Hero Champion dark angel swordsman may be famous one day dark angel swordsman may be famous one day dark angel swordsman's Avatar
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    Re: Suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Zev View Post
    lol I agree with you.

    Yeah, most people want the attention, or they need something to hold over your head. Like "I am going to kill myself if you leave me" and so on.
    And it's not like there aren't other people in this world who are willing to care for you, so I wouldn't understand it anyways.

    Which brings me to another point. If a person were to commit suicide, so many people would miss that person. More than they think. Their friends, their family, anyone close or even not close at all. Anyone that you've possibly interacted with in your entire life is a possiblity. It's always more than they think it would be. And then they have absolutely no means to apologize. Guilt for the rest of eternity? Think I'll pass.

    (Something makes me think this has already been mentioned...)
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  9. #64
    Otaku Tula is off to a good start Tula's Avatar
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    Re: Suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    this arguement could go along with the notion of why do I even have to get out of bed, I am a insignificant cog in the machine, so what is the point of doing anything if no one will realize that I am here, why try, why do anything if it has no meaning? every life has meaning, I could stand here on a soap box and preach about why you shouldn't off yourself. hell I have more than once thought about killing myself, but I have realized that it is easy to kill yourself, but it is harder to live, and I have chosen to live, life might be hard, but it is my life and I will not sell my life short, who cares if no one notices me or I don't date that hot girl, etc., etc. I am here and I will live, not to also mention that when one is in that suicidual state of mind, it will blind you from realizing just who will miss you. so don't try to sell off a life as being so insignificant, that is what I want to say as regards to what you said about suicide, hell that is why I went back to school and will be attending csun in the fall, because i know I can do better and I will, who knows I could be a famous writer, or a historian someday, whose works might influence the world someday or even another person who commited suicide could have cured cancer, you don't know that either, do you, that could have just as much impact in the world as well.

    as for the self sacrafice, that is not suicide because you are trying to save another life, not just take away only yours, that is a selfish death, not saving another life and just killing your self is a waste, at least if you die while trying to save another person, at least you did not die in vain.
    You missed my point entirely.
    In the agruement of whether or not suicide was right or wrong whatever the reason, you neither take away a person's right to choose the toption or assume the reason behind it, whatever it may be.

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