What's the deal with Gun Laws?

memento_mori · Apr 25, 2007, 09:04 AM

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

LII: Constitution

**LenMiyata** · Apr 25, 2007, 10:28 AM

Grumble Grumble Grumble

Quote:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Notice that it doesn't mention an individual's right to bear arms being necessary, just a well regulated militia... As worded, this means that the Federal Government cannot prevent the individual States from forming 'militias' (read National Guard) through the use of Federal gun laws. And as Amendment 'X' states...

Quote:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Since the States are not explicitly prohibited from regulating an individuals right to bear arms, there's nothing that prevent the States from implementing gun control laws within their borders. And this has been upheld by Supreme Court rulings...

*atomik_sprout* · Apr 25, 2007, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LenMiyata

Grumble Grumble Grumble

Notice that it doesn't mention an individual's right to bear arms being necessary, just a well regulated militia... As worded, this means that the Federal Government cannot prevent the individual States from forming 'militias' (read National Guard) through the use of Federal gun laws. And as Amendment 'X' states...

Since the States are not explicitly prohibited from regulating an individuals right to bear arms, there's nothing that prevent the States from implementing gun control laws within their borders. And this has been upheld by Supreme Court rulings...

Thanks for doing all the homework for me, LenMiyata; LOL.
All joking aside, gun laws are in place for a very good reason. No, the government can't say whether or not you get to own a gun (unless you're a convicted felon), Yes, you have the right to bear arms. Is it neccessary? I don't think so.

The right to bear arms is for home defense--be it at your residence or be it homeland security. That's pretty much it. I don't think the law says that it's cool to own a gun, just to own one--or to shoot at random people.

memento_mori · Apr 25, 2007, 03:36 PM

I obviously needed to clarify my position. It was a half assed attemt to finish it off before takin' care of business.

I believe that gun laws are beneficial, but these politicians are taking it too far. They’re making it virtually impossible for anyone to get a gun. In fact it's illegal to own bullet proof vests now. What the hell?!?!?!

There is logic behind legal age and background checks. Even back in the days of the Revolution a father would wait for a certain age to start teaching his son how to shoot. And no one in their right mind would sell a gun to a convicted murderer.

The core logic to some of these gun laws is that by making it illegal to own guns, no one can get killed by them. I think that’s a crock of shit.

Here’s where this logic fails:
1. Gun laws make it harder for law-abiding citizens to buy guns.
2. Someone with the intent to kill is not exactly someone who gives a crap about any gun laws.

Result:
Law-abiding unarmed citizens are killed by homicidal maniacs who obtain guns by other means.

If every citizen had a gun, regardless of the location, our planes would not have been hijacked by a bunch of terrorists with box cutters. Instead they would have guns. But even if they had guns, every other passenger on the plane would have them too. No hijacking for you Osama.

On the other hand, columbine would have been an all out shoot out instead of a one sided massacre. But the students would at least have a chance to defend themselves.

In the end what i'm saying is that mild regulations are the key. Don't go so far as to tell the citizens they are too stupid to do the rest on their own.

Shu · Apr 25, 2007, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memento_mori

I obviously needed to clarify my position. It was a half assed attemt to finish it off before takin' care of business.

I believe that gun laws are beneficial, but these politicians are taking it too far. They’re making it virtually impossible for anyone to get a gun. In fact it's illegal to own bullet proof vests now. What the hell?!?!?!

There is logic behind legal age and background checks. Even back in the days of the Revolution a father would wait for a certain age to start teaching his son how to shoot. And no one in their right mind would sell a gun to a convicted murderer.

The core logic to some of these gun laws is that by making it illegal to own guns, no one can get killed by them. I think that’s a crock of shit.

Here’s where this logic fails:
1. Gun laws make it harder for law-abiding citizens to buy guns.
2. Someone with the intent to kill is not exactly someone who gives a crap about any gun laws.

Result:
Law-abiding unarmed citizens are killed by homicidal maniacs who obtain guns by other means.

If every citizen had a gun, regardless of the location, our planes would not have been hijacked by a bunch of terrorists with box cutters. Instead they would have guns. But even if they had guns, every other passenger on the plane would have them too. No hijacking for you Osama.

On the other hand, columbine would have been an all out shoot out instead of a one sided massacre. But the students would at least have a chance to defend themselves.

In the end what i'm saying is that mild regulations are the key. Don't go so far as to tell the citizens they are too stupid to do the rest on their own.

where the hell are you going to get a bullet proof vest anyways?

*lebasiara* · Apr 25, 2007, 03:47 PM

The law is right and the restrictions too.... not just the homicides are maniacs... there are a lot of house normal people with a temper... and they can blow a neighbor's head just because they got mad at something... I see disaster if the regulations weren't that harsh... plus not everyone that has a gun in their house is careful enough to hide it from lil kids... Not everyone is mentally good to have a gun in possession.... a gun gives the feeling of power... and not everyone can handle very well to have the "power to kill people" in their hands.... (it sounds pretty much like a death note lol)....

Chubz · Apr 25, 2007, 04:55 PM

I have no problem with people owning rifles or shotguns, if purchased legally and the person isn't a nutjob. But I do not see the need for people to be able to own handguns, machine guns, sub-machine guns, or any type of firearm they so choose, even if it is a law abiding citizen. I think weapons like those should only be given to police officers and the military.

I don't think giving everyone a gun solves any problems....unless a person undergoes extensive training for how to handle a situation like that (not just how to use a gun, but how to assess what's going on, how to approach it properly, and how to use lethal force if necessary)...otherwise you just have another idiot waving a gun around. The argument for giving everyone a gun also relies on a 100% success rate, which will never happen, as proponents of the idea say "well if they had a gun, this wouldn't happen" and everyone would have been saved.

Giving everyone a gun so that they can shoot back just makes the issue into a mexican standoff, or an old western shoot out. The argument assumes that the gun holder will take out the shooter with no problems, and everyone will be safe and happy....but what happens if let's say the event is taking place at a university or school, people are trying to run around to get out of the way, and our Hero accidentally fires a shot that misses, and embeds itself into a now dead civilian...What then? Is that persons death somehow justified because Mr. Hero was trying to save the day? If a police officer accidentally kills a civilian, they pretty much get sent to the rack, so what happens if it's another civilian who fires the shot?

Not only will the police have to try and figure out which shooter is the crazy one, they'll also have to examine the bullets in any dead bodies to see which gun was used in the killing, and for the sake of argument, what if one of the bullets was fired by Mr. Hero?

If someone goes on a shooting rampage, they generally don't expect to come out alive. That's why in many of the school shootings, and even the VT shooting, the person always ends up committing suicide. So what do they care if someone else has a gun? If they're gonna do it, they're gonna do it. They know the minute they start shooting, they're dead anyways, either taken out by police, or they shoot themselves in the head. Giving everyone a gun just increases the mayhem, because now you have to worry about crossfire. Of course, this isn't brought up by proponents of the idea, because like I said, the assumption they use is that it'll take 1 bullet to end the deal.....but unless you have extensive training on how to handle situations like that (and I don't mean just training on how to use a gun) you could potentially be just as much a problem as the maniac.

From VPC.org

Quote:

For every time a gun in the home is used in a self-defense homicide, a gun will be used in—

1.3 unintentional deaths

4.6 criminal homicides

37 suicides22

In 1997 there were 15,690 homicides.

Of these, 8,503 were committed with handguns.

Among handgun homicides, only 193 (2.3 percent) were classified as justifiable homicides by civilians.23

For every time in 1997 that a civilian used a handgun to kill in self-defense, 43 people lost their lives in handgun homicides alone.24

Quote:

On the average, if someone gets shot and killed, four out of five times it will be with a handgun. In 1997, for example, handguns were used in 79.4 percent of all firearm homicides.10

From 1990 to 1997, handguns were used in a majority (55.6 percent) of all homicides; that is, they were used in murder more than all other weapons combined.11

From 1990 to 1997, there were 293,781 firearm deaths—homicides, suicides, and unintentional shootings.12

From 1990 to 1997 in the United States there were more than—

160,000 homicides

110,000 firearm homicides

89,000 handgun homicides13

Handgun homicides hit record highs in the early 1990s, peaking in 1993. That year there were 13,258 such killings—out of a total of 16,120 firearm homicides.14

memento_mori · Apr 27, 2007, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shu

where the hell are you going to get a bullet proof vest anyways?

I know of a magical place called ebay. Check it out!!!

*equinn* · Apr 27, 2007, 02:31 PM

ok well its for things like what happened at that school in the u.s dosnt happen
u need a licene like my dad has and they need to be stored in a gun cabinit
or u could get fined or put in jail ...¬__¬ i think not sure

but people keep them for protion ect
even if there not alowd the still belive it will

me myself had a palit gun ( but it had real palits like can go strat though u like a real gun) i had it with me all xmas break cos there was a man in your back ally and i was the only one in the house at that time.
so i took it down with me and locked eveything i mean everything....

nightboyz · Aug 27, 2007, 12:19 PM

You know guys there are other ways to kill than just guns. Even if guns were "POOF" gone people will still kill and self defence would go back the old ways, but sence the most common way of murder is guns the the law has to take the proper steps in controling them. Geting a gun without the law is just like drug, they come in this country and sold though dealers. Thats how the world work and it sucks but we got to put up with it.

Hassun · Aug 27, 2007, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chubz

I have no problem with people owning rifles or shotguns, if purchased legally and the person isn't a nutjob. But I do not see the need for people to be able to own handguns, machine guns, sub-machine guns, or any type of firearm they so choose, even if it is a law abiding citizen. I think weapons like those should only be given to police officers and the military.

I don't think giving everyone a gun solves any problems....unless a person undergoes extensive training for how to handle a situation like that (not just how to use a gun, but how to assess what's going on, how to approach it properly, and how to use lethal force if necessary)...otherwise you just have another idiot waving a gun around. The argument for giving everyone a gun also relies on a 100% success rate, which will never happen, as proponents of the idea say "well if they had a gun, this wouldn't happen" and everyone would have been saved.

Giving everyone a gun so that they can shoot back just makes the issue into a mexican standoff, or an old western shoot out. The argument assumes that the gun holder will take out the shooter with no problems, and everyone will be safe and happy....but what happens if let's say the event is taking place at a university or school, people are trying to run around to get out of the way, and our Hero accidentally fires a shot that misses, and embeds itself into a now dead civilian...What then? Is that persons death somehow justified because Mr. Hero was trying to save the day? If a police officer accidentally kills a civilian, they pretty much get sent to the rack, so what happens if it's another civilian who fires the shot?

Not only will the police have to try and figure out which shooter is the crazy one, they'll also have to examine the bullets in any dead bodies to see which gun was used in the killing, and for the sake of argument, what if one of the bullets was fired by Mr. Hero?

If someone goes on a shooting rampage, they generally don't expect to come out alive. That's why in many of the school shootings, and even the VT shooting, the person always ends up committing suicide. So what do they care if someone else has a gun? If they're gonna do it, they're gonna do it. They know the minute they start shooting, they're dead anyways, either taken out by police, or they shoot themselves in the head. Giving everyone a gun just increases the mayhem, because now you have to worry about crossfire. Of course, this isn't brought up by proponents of the idea, because like I said, the assumption they use is that it'll take 1 bullet to end the deal.....but unless you have extensive training on how to handle situations like that (and I don't mean just training on how to use a gun) you could potentially be just as much a problem as the maniac.

From VPC.org

I always have the urge to slap a person who says something like:
"If all the students and teachers in Virginia Tech or Columbine had firearms there wouldn't be as many casualties."

That's just sad.

Apr 25, 2007, 09:04 AM	#1 (permalink)
memento_mori Newbie Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Credits: 160	What's the deal with Gun Laws? Amendment II A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. LII: Constitution __________________ No dumb bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other dumb bastard die for his country. ---George S. Patton
Status: Offline

Apr 25, 2007, 03:36 PM	#4 (permalink)
memento_mori Newbie Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Credits: 160	Re: What's the deal with Gun Laws? I obviously needed to clarify my position. It was a half assed attemt to finish it off before takin' care of business. I believe that gun laws are beneficial, but these politicians are taking it too far. They’re making it virtually impossible for anyone to get a gun. In fact it's illegal to own bullet proof vests now. What the hell?!?!?! There is logic behind legal age and background checks. Even back in the days of the Revolution a father would wait for a certain age to start teaching his son how to shoot. And no one in their right mind would sell a gun to a convicted murderer. The core logic to some of these gun laws is that by making it illegal to own guns, no one can get killed by them. I think that’s a crock of shit. Here’s where this logic fails: 1. Gun laws make it harder for law-abiding citizens to buy guns. 2. Someone with the intent to kill is not exactly someone who gives a crap about any gun laws. Result: Law-abiding unarmed citizens are killed by homicidal maniacs who obtain guns by other means. If every citizen had a gun, regardless of the location, our planes would not have been hijacked by a bunch of terrorists with box cutters. Instead they would have guns. But even if they had guns, every other passenger on the plane would have them too. No hijacking for you Osama. On the other hand, columbine would have been an all out shoot out instead of a one sided massacre. But the students would at least have a chance to defend themselves. In the end what i'm saying is that mild regulations are the key. Don't go so far as to tell the citizens they are too stupid to do the rest on their own. __________________ No dumb bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other dumb bastard die for his country. ---George S. Patton
Status: Offline

Apr 25, 2007, 03:47 PM	#6 (permalink)
lebasiara Live and feel the music Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Here and there... Posts: 1,003 Thanks: 11 Thanked 19 Times in 17 Posts Credits: 16,979	Re: What's the deal with Gun Laws? The law is right and the restrictions too.... not just the homicides are maniacs... there are a lot of house normal people with a temper... and they can blow a neighbor's head just because they got mad at something... I see disaster if the regulations weren't that harsh... plus not everyone that has a gun in their house is careful enough to hide it from lil kids... Not everyone is mentally good to have a gun in possession.... a gun gives the feeling of power... and not everyone can handle very well to have the "power to kill people" in their hands.... (it sounds pretty much like a death note lol).... __________________ Awesome sig Yasmine ^_^ I appreciate it thank you very much ^_^ $C:\Documents and Settings\MARA\My Documents\My Pictures\Anime room\sigs\music_sig1 mia ^_^.jpg$ I wish for a hundred dollar bill rain...
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Apr 27, 2007, 02:31 PM	#9 (permalink)
equinn Ao's official cat girl~★ Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Emerald island (Eire) (Ireland) Posts: 1,680 Thanks: 11 Thanked 29 Times in 28 Posts Credits: 19,745	Re: What's the deal with Gun Laws? ok well its for things like what happened at that school in the u.s dosnt happen u need a licene like my dad has and they need to be stored in a gun cabinit or u could get fined or put in jail ...¬__¬ i think not sure but people keep them for protion ect even if there not alowd the still belive it will me myself had a palit gun ( but it had real palits like can go strat though u like a real gun) i had it with me all xmas break cos there was a man in your back ally and i was the only one in the house at that time. so i took it down with me and locked eveything i mean everything.... __________________ Lizzie + Phil together for 8 months! and to be longer! WOOP! http://neko-panda.deviantart.com/
Status: Offline

Aug 27, 2007, 12:19 PM	#10 (permalink)
nightboyz Diamond in the Rough Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Where sence means nothing... Posts: 225 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Credits: 873	Re: What's the deal with Gun Laws? You know guys there are other ways to kill than just guns. Even if guns were "POOF" gone people will still kill and self defence would go back the old ways, but sence the most common way of murder is guns the the law has to take the proper steps in controling them. Geting a gun without the law is just like drug, they come in this country and sold though dealers. Thats how the world work and it sucks but we got to put up with it. __________________ I Think... Therefore You Are...
Status: Offline

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