Inuruto

I have read the previous post & I am sorry that you got the misfortune that I didn't understand, but I was telling you all why I believe that Mormons did have & practice/believe that (dark-skinned curse) cause it was their was a time that slavery was going on & now that times & laws has changed so has the beliefs...

Same thing with polygamy now that people has such grief over it Mormons want to say they don't condone it in these days in time... Like they just disowned the practice of it since it brought so much conflict towards their religion... < Like they want to keep the good part about it & ban the "bad">... To benefit their way of life in these times...

Something like how homosexuals believe in the "word of god" , but doesn't believe god is that biased so they don't claim the scripture "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it's an abomination." (something like that) or anything against their way of life... Only thing homosexuals haven't started a religion they just believe/accept what they believe "their" god is like... But before the end of time there will be one homosexual who is going to spread "their" word of god & make a religion & I am not talking about a cult either an actual religion... But you can take it how you want to cause that is how other religions do it, if it isn't their way it is either wrong or a cult/ religious organization committee...

equinn

as u said all that it reminds me about doing the ww2 stuff in school last year ( man i miss history)

it minds me of the kkk the klu klcks klan ( i cant spell yes)
but would they be anything like that you think?...

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Hassun

Inuruto, please use paragraphs in your posts.

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Arrianna

So you believe that those of us who practice this religion are either wrong or lying about it in this thread? hmmm... well you are entitled to your opinion but I will tell you that the LDS church has always keep records about these things (and everything else) from church minutes and documents to journals.

It is well documented by such records that the early leaders of the church not only did not believe that blacks were second hand citizens they would take in those who had run away from slavery and had no where else to go.

As for polygamy there are many journals with entries about their feelings on the practice that completely contradict what you have said about them. It doesn't add up that they would do it because of lust either or why would they accept all those rules and regulations on the practice up to and including having to have the first wifes permission? It is also well documented exactly when the practice was discontinued and the reactions to it. There is no need to claim we don't condone anything when we can merely show you. It is the opposite of the schisms who claim they are only practicing their religion by practicing polygamy now. They claim they are following the original teachings yet not one of them follows the laws as set down in the Doctrine & Covenants. The hypocrisy is overwhelming and shows their true intent. The difference between then and now is night and day.

So I am only going to say that you may believe that but I can tell you it is not true. That the things I have told you about my own religion are true. That I am well educated on the subject, have lived in the church for more then 30 years, and know of what I speak. In the future may I suggest going to the religion you wish to know about to learn about them instead of others? Otherwise it would be as useful as my asking a Born Again Christian what a Buddist believed.

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Inuruto

Again you misinterpreted what I was trying to say & I with you...
If you believe that I think the people who practice this religion is wrong or lying I guess that is your opinion...

I will ask where do you think these schisms/rumors came from... They had to generate from some truth... Even some fairy-tales has truth behind it no matter how slim it may be...

I am pretty sure there are documents of people of the church helping slaves... I also didn't say that Mormons hated blacks either... I just stated that (the dark-skinned curse) & how if they did accept the word of god how they wasn't accepted to the top notch Celestial heaven if they were they was second class or they had to settle for the underneath Terrestrial... (Don't mean to keep repeating myself)

I do know of the "people of Caanan, Ham, & Egyptus which they gave birth to a Caananites who later became king of Egypt... We all know how things got built over that way (slaves)... Did you know the darker you were the higher risk of danger your job was & claimed they could work longer in the heat.?.

Now with that being confirmed that discrimination/unfairness was going on way back then even with color... Mr. Smith Jr. (Joseph) while he opposed against slavery he owned "servants"... (That's like me against beef, but own a slaughter house)

Yea' I know polygamy was a practice for the better side of the good like love, family, the holy-spirit etc., but where is all that when you have a wife who hasn't even fully developed.?. Couldn't you take her as a daughter.?. Yes I heard Mr. Smith Jr. had like 30 plus wives...

And I never said I was against polygamy because I feel if it's someones' religion & it isn't causing harm to anyone then they should be able to practice it... (That's one of the freedom we have as people) My problem is when the woman are girls... That's like a pedophile hiding behind God...

Yes I can honestly say I might not know as much as you do concerning your religion... All I can do is ask questions & look up the information, but if I don't understand something I would like someone who claims the religion to elaborate...

I apologize for any misconception that you took it as I look down at your religion... That's not the case I love it when people finds faith in something... If we have no faith we have no hope... I just wanted to see which source is wrong & how much truth it is in the both of them, if any...

Arrianna

So you are asking questions? If so you defiantly gave the wrong impression.

Well, rumor wise, most of them were actually generated by anti-Mormon groups that formed very early on. That is well documented as well. Just as most of the anti-Mormon literature continues to reference them as reliable sources even though they have been proven to be libel and slander. I guess no one told the ones writing the new stuff that, or they just don't care.

The schisms? I thought we had covered that.

The church had very strict rules about how and when polygamy could be practiced. When it was ordered discontinued by the prophet there were groups that refused to obey and left the church because of it and started their own. Sadly there have even been groups that appeared after that who claimed to have discovered that it should never have been discontinued and restarted all on their own. It is something I am very familiar with since I have ancestors that were in the church at the time. Not only that I also live in an area not far from the schism that is in the news so much right now. A friend of mine in high school was from a family practicing polygamy and had her life destroyed by it. So as you can see it is a subject I know about by personal past experience as well as education.

Mind you, that is only a few of the schisms. Not all schisms were created by those wanting to practice polygamy. I have read that there are over 100 different schisms from the LDS church. Just about everytime there was a revelation that someone didn't like there were new offshoots formed as groups left and started their own. Perhaps what you have heard about blacks is from on of them (if not just one of the many rumors). I know there were some few who didn't like it when the priesthood was extended to all regardless of color and left the church because of it.

One of the biggest schisms however is the group now know as "The Community of Christ" (they used to be called "Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints"). This group were formed from saints who stayed behind when the rest of the church was forced to leave for what is now Utah, in fear for their lives, by repudiating their association. There were also former saints who had already left the church over differences, as mentioned before, including not agreeing with the practice of polygamy. The former members broke into multiple sects each with their own opinion about who should really be running their church and why. Eventually a group that believed in patralinear heredity took the forefront, convinced one of Joseph Smiths sons to become the head of their church and officially "reorganized".

Once again that is completely false. See above for more than one reason you may have heard otherwise. Another reason you may have heard that is because the "top notch Celestial heaven" is often misunderstood. To get into the Celestial Kingdom only requires baptism and obedience to the covenants made. Inside the kingdom is supposed to be several levels of exaltation achieved through obedience to those same covenants. Some of those covenants require the priesthood (which we have covered before), some require Temples. So I can see where that would come from. However the truth is that people are only judged by their obedience to the covenants they have made personally so those who could not make those covenants that required the priesthood, or Temples, will not be penalized by it.

So you support slavery every time you go out to eat at a restaurant? I guess you better not ever go on vacation all those people giving you service is slavery. Don't be silly. All a servant is is a paid worker. Nobody owns them and if they don't like the job or pay they can leave. Anyone who works in the service industry today does the exact same thing. Back then everyone who was in the middle class had at least one maid and usually a cook as well. I suggest you go read some history books.

I agree. That is exactly what most of the schisms that practice Polygamy these days are doing and it is utterly despicable.

The early LDS church? No. The average age of marriage for a woman in the church back then was 25. That is what happens though when you have a religion that teaches that it is very important for women to be educated and have degree's whenever possible.

Well hopefully I have helped with that a little.

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Inuruto

You helped tremendously... I guess the statement is true you should look before you leap...

Again I apologize for any headaches I caused you... Trust me I know how difficult it is when you are trying to explain something to someone who seems close-minded (not saying I was lol) ^_^ &/or when someone is questioning your beliefs...

Like I said I just wanted to get a better understanding on the schisms & the religion itself...

I always wanted to know more about it when I started watching the show "Big Love" & how true it is pertaining to the Mormon religion... I have looked up certain things when I was at a lost, but sometimes it made me more confused probably cause I was at the wrong source or maybe I was always was a a better learner hands on (explained)...

Arrianna

I am glad I could help then.

Well there is your problem right there. "Big Love" is utter and complete fiction. The brain child of Hollywood writers who have never even lived in the area and know nothing more then they read in the news about polygamists from one of the schisms. The show is so inaccurate it was protested by just about every religious group in the region when it aired. Going on the net wouldn't help either. I've looked and the amount of misinformation, lies, and confusion is positively overwhelming if you don't already know what to look for. Sorry you had to go through that.

If you ever have any other questions feel free to ask. I am sure that if I am not around aceman would be happy to answer them. Or there is always the LDS.org site. It's the churches official site and has resources for members and nonmembers alike.

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Inuruto

You are right cause I did look up information on the net not to mention other people who isn't with the religion, but claimed they knew things about it...

As you know there are not too many people where I come from who I can go to get accurate information...

As for "Big Love" I am sorry for it being a mockery of your religion... I just found it interesting cause I thought I could learn more about polygamy & the reason behind it plus the religion behind it...

The "golden templates" (I think that is what their called) was them the ten commandments or something & if someone gives their soul to God & accept him as his almighty savior is that all you have to do to become a member of LDS (I know these are simple questions, but I like to get the basics ot the way first).?. Especially before I go deeper with the questions I have in mind...

syd

How do you guys feel about Warren Jeffs a self-proclaimed prophet? Who at this moment is on trial charged with being an accomplice to rape for arranging the marriage of a 14-year-old girl to her 19-year-old first cousin.

For those that don’t Warren Jeffs. He is the leader of a controversial Mormon fundamentalist polygamist sect known as the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS Church).

Warren Jeffs teaches that a man has to have at least three wives in order to get into heaven and the more wives man has, the closer he is to heaven. Former church members claim that Jeffs himself has seventy wives.

Also Jeffs is the sole individual in the church who can perform marriages, is responsible for assigning wives to husbands. Jeffs also has the ability to punish men by reassigning their wives, children, and homes to another man. Moreover, the FLDS Church owns essentially all of the homes and real estate in the areas where its members reside.

And the part that I found sick that within a week after his fathers dead Warren Jeffs had married all but two of his father's several dozen wives.

I know no all Mormons are like this but I’m sure this is giving them a bad rep. what do you guys think about.

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aceman67

Warren Jeffs is a sick and depraved man. He married off young children to adults and deserves to be where he is right now: in prison.

There is nothing worse in this world then someone who willfully abuses children.

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