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Thread: When was Jesus Christ Born?

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    Re: When was Jesus Christ Born?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scourge View Post
    That is Jesus. People back then for the most part during this day and age didn't have last names, that came about much much later, so to identify two people of the same name as individuals would be to use where they are from/born/provence/city/state... so on and so foth as a last name. Thats why you see people say "I am Hans from Brusles Germany" for example compared to "Hans from Burlin Germany." But that is the same Jesus as Jesus Christ.
    Yep, thus you have some people who has the last name of "Townsend" which literally means "Town's End". Thanks for the fourth grade substitute teacher for telling me that.

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    Re: When was Jesus Christ Born?

    I would have to agree with all of those that think that Jesus was born in the Spring. Many religious historians have been saying this for years.

    By the way, the early Catholic Church did choose December 25 to convert Pagans as several of their Holiest days fall between December 21 and Jan 1 depending upon which tradition and deity is being followed. The 21 is the Winter Solstice, the shortest day of the year. December 25 is the Holiest days of one of the early Sun Gods (can't remember which one at this time).

    But I DO believe in celibrating the Holiday even though I'm Pagan. My Holy Day is the 21 but my family has always celbrated Christmas as a day for the family to get together. It's also a National Holiday, or it was last I knew. Plus many Pagans recognize that Jesus Christ was a Spiritual Teacher. They don't necessarily agree with everything he had to teach, but theystill recognize him as a Teacher, a very important position in many Pagan religions.
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    Re: When was Jesus Christ Born?

    What most people don't realize is that Judaism, Christianity, and the Muslim faith are all very similar, the practice and the people who they see as important profits are different, how ever, both, Judaism and those of Muslim faith recognize Jesus as a very important profit, however they do not see him as God's son and not as important as the ones they believe. There are other many differences but at the same time there are many similarities.
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    Re: When was Jesus Christ Born?

    If I remember correctly, it's a sort of progression according to some priests and scholars. Moses, Jesus, Mohammed (sp.?). And Old Testament, New Testament, Koran(sp.?). And at least two of those religions (Christianity and Judaism, not sure of Muslim) have major Holy Days around December 25 (Hannukah(?) and Christmas).
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    Re: When was Jesus Christ Born?

    Quote Originally Posted by gamemaster331 View Post
    By the way, the early Catholic Church did choose December 25 to convert Pagans as several of their Holiest days fall between December 21 and Jan 1 depending upon which tradition and deity is being followed. The 21 is the Winter Solstice, the shortest day of the year. December 25 is the Holiest days of one of the early Sun Gods (can't remember which one at this time).
    That is a modern myth I'm afraid along with the one about Halloween. Like most I've tried to research involving the Catholic church the origin of the myth appears to be the Anglican church in England who went to great lengths to mock all things Catholic after their split and did NOT celebrate Christmas for some time as a result.

    The first recording of the use of Dec 25th was in 243 A.D. At one time supposedly they also checked records from Rome as to when census' were taken on behalf of those in Jerusalem who were among the first to have all the pageantry and pomp we associate with Christmas. If you wish to read a very comprehensive list of the history of it's celebration in various places you can find it here: CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Christmas

    The Sol you are thinking of however is the Natalis Invicti festival from Rome that celebrated the birth of the sun. However since the celebration of Christmas on the 25th of Dec actually predates the Natalis Invicti feast It could actually be said that it may have influenced the timing of the Roman feast rather then the other way around, Natalis Invicti being for the birth of the sun after Solstice 4 days earlier after all.
    The earliest rapprochement of the births of Christ and the sun is in Cyprian, "De pasch. Comp.", xix, "O quam præclare providentia ut illo die quo natus est Sol . . . nasceretur Christus." — "O, how wonderfully actedProvidence that on that day on which that Sun was born . . . Christ should be born."

    In the fourth century, Chrysostom, "del Solst. Et Æquin." (II, p. 118, ed. 1588), says: "Sed et dominus noster nascitur mense decembris . . . VIII Kal. Ian. . . . Sed et Invicti Natalem appelant. Quis utique tam invictus nisi dominus noster? . . . Vel quod dicant Solis esse natalem, ipse est Sol iustitiæ." — "But Our Lord, too, is born in the month of December . . . the eight before the calends of January [25 December] . . ., But they call it the 'Birthday of the Unconquered'. Who indeed is so unconquered as Our Lord . . .? Or, if they say that it is the birthday of the Sun, He is the Sun of Justice."

    Already Tertullian (Apol., 16; cf. Ad. Nat., I, 13; Orig. c. Cels., VIII, 67, etc) had to assert that Sol was not the Christians' God; Augustine (Tract xxxiv, in Joan. In P.L., XXXV, 1652) denounces the heretical identification of Christ with Sol.

    Pope Leo I (Serm. xxxvii in nat. dom., VII, 4; xxii, II, 6 in P.L., LIV, 218 and 198) bitterly reproves solar survivals — Christians, on the very doorstep of the Apostles' basilica, turn to adore the rising sun. Sun-worship has bequeathed features to modern popular worship in Armenia, where Christians had once temporarily and externally conformed to the cult of the material sun (Cumont, op. cit., p. 356).
    In other words it is more likely due to converts to Catholicism who wished to continue worshiping their previous Gods at the same time who created a parallelism. The comparison which was then denounced from the pulpit from the very beginning as not being true. It's not to hard to see it happening however since in Asian countries there are many who do the same thing today or since local beliefs often tend to color religious ceremonies of Monotheistic practitioners in any country.



    Not that it really matters since being close to Solstice just about every culture will have some kind of celebration around that time, pagan or otherwise. Why worry about it? Celebrate your own beliefs and enjoy the holidays.

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    Post Re: When was Jesus Christ Born?

    Ooh! I discuss things a lot in my RE classes! I might as well join!

    Anyway, I don't know for certain if Jesus was born on the 25th of December, but what I can be absolutely 100% certain that he was NOT born on the 25th of December 0BC. Why? Because the reason why there was no room at the inn was because of a Roman census that took place once every couple of years, and historians reckon that the closest possible census year would be 6BC. Therefore, to quote Horrible Histories, Jesus was born 6 years before the first christmas. Hang on, that can't be right? Can it?

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    Re: When was Jesus Christ Born?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrianna View Post
    Not that it really matters since being close to Solstice just about every culture will have some kind of celebration around that time, pagan or otherwise. Why worry about it? Celebrate your own beliefs and enjoy the holidays.
    Probably the greatest and best advice I have heared in a very long time and I agree with it whole heartedly.
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    AND THUS THE WAR WAS STARTED NOT BY GUN SHOT BUT BY WEDDING BELLS

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    Re: When was Jesus Christ Born?

    We all need to keep religion out of this, as it is a very simple scientific explanation. It's been proven that Jesus Christ was a real person, som one who actually existed.

    The answer to the question lies in the future, when our technology is advanced enough to answer the question.
    Why hello there!

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