Women in Society - Page 2

!The GunGrave of Trigun · Dec 29, 2007, 04:32 PM

We are both equal i think everybodys the same in smarts unless you become smarter but i do think we should go back to mom makes meal while dad works its and even trade is it not for the family.

bbZuSh · Jan 07, 2008, 01:02 PM

I really do think that women have, overall, a positive impact on society. Development brought intelligence for us and we found that we could make use of the female community if they weren't to stay at home. She can support her family by working and can acquire knowledge that long ago wasn't 'allowed'. Women had potential that we, as human beings, should exploit. (I form part of that women community too :P ) They are smart and well, can be equal in some way to men. Not that I am saying they are equal. They have their differences but their similarities as well. If you were to talk of negative impacts, that would be the prostitutes, strip teasers and so on, which are nowadays, much more seen. But that didn't mean it didn't exist long ago.

*TaurusDemon23* · Jan 08, 2008, 08:45 PM

I think women in America get away with waaaaaaaay too much. I'm all about equality of the sexes and all that, but I'm sick of how "untouchable" women have become, legally. A chick can hit a man in the face, but if a man does so much as push the woman, she can get the guy arrested, even if she nearly beats the man to death. I know beating a woman is "horrible" and all that, but women need to deal with consequences as much as we do. If a woman hits me, I'm hitting her back, and if she tries to call the cops on me, I'll kill her. I'd do the same to a man, too.

You women want equality, fine. I just don't think women should be able to get away with so damn much, like they do in America.

I've had friends that got screwed over by women this way. It's messed up. These days you gotta approch women like land mines, so much as a complement can be misconstrued as "harassment" if the woman's in a bad mood. Seen it, lived it. If you make one more phone call than a chick wants you to, than it can be construed as "harassment" and cops can be called.

There's this chick that keeps calling me. I don't like her. If I went to the cops about the "harassment", they'd laugh at me and tell me to deal with it myself, but my hands are so friggin tied on how to deal with it because......OH MY! The slut is a WOMAN! I can't even so much as fart in her direction without the option of her calling the cops!

We men get called PIGs, DOGS, SCUM, etc., yet we're supposed to take it in stride. If we called a Woman a SLUT, HOE, BITCH, etc. Women get all pissy and tend to get physical.

All and all, Women get away with too damn much. If women want to be treated special for having neden between their legs, we can treat them special......heh.....

tsurara · Jan 09, 2008, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaurusDemon23

We men get called PIGs, DOGS, SCUM, etc., yet we're supposed to take it in stride. If we called a Woman a SLUT, HOE, BITCH, etc. Women get all pissy and tend to get physical.

...right... so where are all those rap songs about men being easy, subhuman and possessions for women to sleep with, impregnate and smack around?

And the movies where you take your pants and waggle your junk around for no apparent reason and still get a PG-13 rating?

See a lot of man-kinis on the beach? anorexic male models on catwalks? "Boys Gone Wild"? Does Ken have a 2 cm thick waist and a 4 cm around unit? Are television journalists criticizing male political candidates for being emotional or "looking too old"?

Something tells me the girls just might have a point...

Billum256 · Jan 09, 2008, 07:24 AM

I'm perfectly fine with women holding power in the working world. I beleive that they can do the jobs just like a man could. I will say that I don't think they should be body builders but thats just because it looks nasty in my opinion. When it comes to intelligence I believe that it all depends on the person but overall were equal.

*Arrianna* · Jan 09, 2008, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxy

The matter was that in this day and age since women are working outside the home it has caused a negative impact, not only in the home, but society in general. We were split into two groups, one group was for this statement and the other group ws against this statment. The debating really got heated in some points that people were bringing up, but it doesnt matter now.
I want to hear from the people of AO.
Does women workin ouside the home have a negative impact on society?
Tell me if u are for or against this statement. And tell me your reason why u chose the side u did.

Let me modify that just a little. Mothers working outside the home has a negative impact on society.

This isn't about rights it's about responsibility. You choose to have children then raise them yourself. If your not home teaching them by example what kind of people to be then they will get their example elsewhere. The "quality not quantity" idea has turned out to be total BS. Children need time not big vacations. All that working outside the home teaches your children is that money is more important then they are and family is not as important as what they get to spend it on. That is a attitude society definitely doesn't need but has plenty of.

The second and utterly unintended consequence of mothers working outside of their home is the release of men from the responsibility of providing for their own children. It sends the message that they don't have to work as hard because the women will do it for them. Last I checked being equal didn't mean doing all the work yet that is where it is at. The myth that equality means doing the same job needs to be utterly debunked. It creates an unequal status where if you don't do a "mans" work you aren't equal and once again devalues your children. Let the men work and take responsibility for the children they choose to bring into this world. The work mothers do is just as, if not more important, to society because when they fail it is society that pays.

The exception to this is single parents. When you have a parent that has opted out then the damage has already been done by them to society and it behooves all of us to help the remaining parent to do all they can. In my life I have seen often the difference in attitude between the children of a single parent who isn't home because they work to take care of their family and the children of parents who work and choose not to be home. One teaches their children hard work and sacrifice the other that, again, money is more important then they are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gren

I see where you're coming from Abu, but feminism isn't (or shouldn't be) about forcing women to do anything. It's about giving women choices that they were denied for a long time. If a woman wants to stay at home and raise her children full time, that's her choice and it's a good one. But on the other hand, if she wants to work full time and skip mommyhood altogether, that's her choice too, and she should be able to do it with getting any flack for it.

...and yet it still is. Women who choose to stay home are treated as lazy or told they should put their kids in others hands so they can have more time to themselves, it's treated as if raising their children is either selfish or to much to ask. The ones getting flack isn't the mothers going to work but the ones staying home. You know what? If the family has another income and they still choose to work outside the home they should get flack for it as should any man not willing to work to support his family. A little public shame would do our society some good. It would certainly be an improvement over not holding anyone responsible for anything (unless it doesn't effect you) that we see right now. Think of it as the other side to "Dead Beat Dads" it's the "Not There Moms".

*lebasiara* · Jan 09, 2008, 06:34 PM

I like this thread and yes this is an interesting debate...

And on this topic I fall on the two positions:
1. I agree that we (women) have to offer to society more than babies, food and cleanning the house. I believe that we are more useful and strong than most ppl think we do (yes guys... and you'll have to admit that) anyways... however I also think on number
2. Because we are not anymore spending time with our children (and that would apply for the men too... (no I don't have any kids yet)) we are not being there to comfort them when they need us... becuse wome are working... and this is the majority... the ones that are raising the kiddos are: friends of the school or street, the baby sitter, the grandpa or gandma or any other person but mom and dad...
I mean it is good for women to work and stuff... but they also need to not forget that they do not only work outside.... but also inside the house.... giving the most important thing that the kids are lacking on the present day... some quality time of mom... (and dad)

gren · Jan 09, 2008, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrianna

Let me modify that just a little. Mothers working outside the home has a negative impact on society.

This isn't about rights it's about responsibility. You choose to have children then raise them yourself. If your not home teaching them by example what kind of people to be then they will get their example elsewhere. The "quality not quantity" idea has turned out to be total BS. Children need time not big vacations. All that working outside the home teaches your children is that money is more important then they are and family is not as important as what they get to spend it on. That is a attitude society definitely doesn't need but has plenty of.

The second and utterly unintended consequence of mothers working outside of their home is the release of men from the responsibility of providing for their own children. It sends the message that they don't have to work as hard because the women will do it for them. Last I checked being equal didn't mean doing all the work yet that is where it is at. The myth that equality means doing the same job needs to be utterly debunked. It creates an unequal status where if you don't do a "mans" work you aren't equal and once again devalues your children. Let the men work and take responsibility for the children they choose to bring into this world. The work mothers do is just as, if not more important, to society because when they fail it is society that pays.

...and yet it still is. Women who choose to stay home are treated as lazy or told they should put their kids in others hands so they can have more time to themselves, it's treated as if raising their children is either selfish or to much to ask. The ones getting flack isn't the mothers going to work but the ones staying home. You know what? If the family has another income and they still choose to work outside the home they should get flack for it as should any man not willing to work to support his family. A little public shame would do our society some good. It would certainly be an improvement over not holding anyone responsible for anything (unless it doesn't effect you) that we see right now. Think of it as the other side to "Dead Beat Dads" it's the "Not There Moms".

You sound like you're saying that every woman who works outside the home rather than staying at home to raise her children does so because she doesn't want to raise her children. That just isn't true. Of all of the mothers I know (my own, my friends' mothers, a few of my friends themselves, and some of the women I work with), none returned to work because they didn't feel it necessary to raise their children themselves. They returned to work because a single income wasn't enough to support the family. And all of their husbands/childrens' fathers continued to work as well. Even with both of my parents going to work everyday, working long hours and overtime, I never got the sense that money meant more to them than their children. We didn't take big vacations, or get the latest new toys or designer clothes; nearly all of my parents' combined income went to food, clothing, schooling and paying bills. And I think this is more often the case than a mother working just so she can have a little extra spending money.

A working mother does not absolve a father of his responsiblity to his family, and any man who would take that "message" from a woman working outside the home was probably not all that keen on working in the first place. As I said, for some families, it's just too difficult to live on one salary. If a father makes enough money to keep his family feed, clothed and living comfortably above the poverty level that's great, and in such a case it might be beneficial for the mother to stay home with the children. But how often is that the case?

You're saying that stay at home moms are being discriminated against and treated unfairly, but you yourself are treating working mothers like the scum of society. Not every kid who's mom goes outside the home to work turns out to be an unloved money-hungry social deviant. As unfair as it is to call stay at home mothers lazy or selfish, it's just as wrong to try to shame women who want/need to aid in the financial support of their families. I still think the whole thing comes down to freedom of choice; if you want to stay home, and have the means to do so, then that's fine. But if you choose to work for whatever reason, and can still be just as good a mother, then that's fine too.

*Arrianna* · Jan 10, 2008, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gren

You sound like you're saying that every woman who works outside the home rather than staying at home to raise her children does so because she doesn't want to raise her children.

No I am saying that society expects others to raise your children, expects women to work no matter what, and treats the mothers that raise their children themselves as the ones to be pitied or looked down on. However if a women choses work over being home with their children without real NEED then what else does it say other then her wants are more important then them. Also how can I be commenting on "every women" when I already gave an exception.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gren

A working mother does not absolve a father of his responsiblity to his family, and any man who would take that "message" from a woman working outside the home was probably not all that keen on working in the first place. As I said, for some families, it's just too difficult to live on one salary. If a father makes enough money to keep his family feed, clothed and living comfortably above the poverty level that's great, and in such a case it might be beneficial for the mother to stay home with the children. But how often is that the case?

Now define "comfortably". Two cars, computers, and entertainment center? If you care more about your children you have to be willing to sacrifice some of what society tells you is necessary to just be there for them. If you aren't willing then what does that say about you? The concept of poverty in the USA really is laughable* so few of us know what poverty really is. Also I am a mother and socialize among mothers and fathers. I get to hear them talking about how happy they are to have their kids in school because they "couldn't handle it much longer" or "it's so hard when the kids are home". Trust me on this, it really is accepted that society will raise your child not you, to do anything else is now strange or unusual. Did you know they found out that the biggest deterrent of harmful behavior was simply whether or not kids ate meals with their parents?

Child Trends DataBank - Family Meals
Benefits of Family Meals Findings from Project EAT

Also I don't think you understand men if you think most of them are "that keen on working" in the first place. I cannot tell you the number of times I have heard a husband say "well my wife makes so much why should I bother". Ask the men here if they were married to a women that made more money then they did whether they would worry about working hard?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gren

You're saying that stay at home moms are being discriminated against and treated unfairly, but you yourself are treating working mothers like the scum of society. Not every kid who's mom goes outside the home to work turns out to be an unloved money-hungry social deviant. As unfair as it is to call stay at home mothers lazy or selfish, it's just as wrong to try to shame women who want/need to aid in the financial support of their families.

No I am saying that they should be ashamed of choosing to work over being home. There is no want/need only need. If they don't NEED it they should be home raising and being responsible for their children and yes they should be ashamed. The problem is that the ones society treats as if they should be ashamed is the one that do choose to be home. You can talk about choice all you want but if they chose to have children they should raise them themselves.

*Understanding Poverty in America

Quote:

For most Americans, the word "poverty" suggests destitution: an inability to provide a family with nutritious food, clothing, and reasonable shelter. But only a small number of the 35 million persons classified as "poor" by the Census Bureau fit that description. While real material hardship certainly does occur, it is limited in scope and severity. Most of America's "poor" live in material conditions that would be judged as comfortable or well-off just a few generations ago. Today, the expenditures per person of the lowest-income one-fifth (or quintile) of households equal those of the median American household in the early 1970s, after adjusting for inflation.1

The following are facts about persons defined as "poor" by the Census Bureau, taken from various government reports:

Forty-six percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.
Seventy-six percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.
The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.
Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher.

*Lasura* · Jan 12, 2008, 02:08 PM

Well I would rather stay at home and not work at all and just rise children and do housework... That would be just great! But I'm afraid it won't happen and I don't find that a good thing. Because it just shows how bad the situation is- we have to work hard all our lifes, both parents just to be able to survive. We NEED to earn money. Evenn if I was ready to live in the country, grow my own food and make my own clothes etc. I couldn't- you still have the rent... bla bla... you get the point.
And children barely see any of their parents... it's just sad... I remember how I myself crawed to be together with my parents... I was ready to do everything. I was the best, quietest, nicest child ever... just because I was afraid that my mother wouldn't take me with her to work if I misbehaved... It's just sad I find...
So you could say I'm one of the people who think that mothers should stay at home. But not because they are doing something wrong to the society with working, but because they are needed at home....

Otherways, I really don't see how a woman working could be bad...
And I find it just great that woman thesedays can get the best education, and are treated the same as men. Especially after I almost have read "The Mill on the Floss", which deals with the education problem (she points out that girls sometimes are capable at something more than men). So we get the people who really are the best at their proffesion in their places... Diversity and equallity are very good things of course. ^^

It's all good, but... children need to see their parents more than 4 hours a day...

Corvus · Jan 12, 2008, 02:23 PM

If you want to know the importance of women in society read The Handmaid's Tale by Margret Atwood. Clearly women are important (so long as they stick together) to society and irreplacable ( I mean just look at how backwards that society is... I'm a guy and it makes me sick to my stomach; the way women are treated in there.)
As far as women working goes let them if they choose to do so... just don't ever forget about kids (should you have any); that goes for both parents. Meaning that sometimes don't get only the nicest things get the things that work... half the brandname foods you get in stores are the same things repackaged with different labels.. .
Seriously what women do is amazing (not to discredit guys in any way) They uphold political ties between themselves and their judgmentive freinds while taking care of the kids pulling weight around the house that isn't theirs cleaning up after "men" who are actually boys in most respects (at least when compared to the unseen tasks of women.)
Then to top it all off some of them feel the need to work... something's gotta give. I'm not saying thatour society has it the worst (I mean we're western civilization everything we touch would be considered gold in some parts of the world but... a definite check of how well we respect our women in society is in order (that goes for the women themselves too.)

Dec 29, 2007, 04:32 PM	#12 (permalink)
!The GunGrave of Trigun Banned Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Hell Posts: 1,099 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts Credits: 21,401	Re: Women in Society We are both equal i think everybodys the same in smarts unless you become smarter but i do think we should go back to mom makes meal while dad works its and even trade is it not for the family.
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Jan 07, 2008, 01:02 PM	#13 (permalink)
bbZuSh Newbie Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: MU Posts: 26 Thanks: 2 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts Credits: 1,784	Re: Women in Society I really do think that women have, overall, a positive impact on society. Development brought intelligence for us and we found that we could make use of the female community if they weren't to stay at home. She can support her family by working and can acquire knowledge that long ago wasn't 'allowed'. Women had potential that we, as human beings, should exploit. (I form part of that women community too :P ) They are smart and well, can be equal in some way to men. Not that I am saying they are equal. They have their differences but their similarities as well. If you were to talk of negative impacts, that would be the prostitutes, strip teasers and so on, which are nowadays, much more seen. But that didn't mean it didn't exist long ago. __________________ They watched him in his descent; the Archangel just made honour to his name the highest of all but, just a mere messenger. Yet a Master he was, one who is of He.
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Jan 08, 2008, 08:45 PM	#14 (permalink)
TaurusDemon23 Lord Of The Wierdness Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Just swimming in the Ether.... Posts: 1,005 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts Credits: 2,971	Re: Women in Society I think women in America get away with waaaaaaaay too much. I'm all about equality of the sexes and all that, but I'm sick of how "untouchable" women have become, legally. A chick can hit a man in the face, but if a man does so much as push the woman, she can get the guy arrested, even if she nearly beats the man to death. I know beating a woman is "horrible" and all that, but women need to deal with consequences as much as we do. If a woman hits me, I'm hitting her back, and if she tries to call the cops on me, I'll kill her. I'd do the same to a man, too. You women want equality, fine. I just don't think women should be able to get away with so damn much, like they do in America. I've had friends that got screwed over by women this way. It's messed up. These days you gotta approch women like land mines, so much as a complement can be misconstrued as "harassment" if the woman's in a bad mood. Seen it, lived it. If you make one more phone call than a chick wants you to, than it can be construed as "harassment" and cops can be called. There's this chick that keeps calling me. I don't like her. If I went to the cops about the "harassment", they'd laugh at me and tell me to deal with it myself, but my hands are so friggin tied on how to deal with it because......OH MY! The slut is a WOMAN! I can't even so much as fart in her direction without the option of her calling the cops! We men get called PIGs, DOGS, SCUM, etc., yet we're supposed to take it in stride. If we called a Woman a SLUT, HOE, BITCH, etc. Women get all pissy and tend to get physical. All and all, Women get away with too damn much. If women want to be treated special for having neden between their legs, we can treat them special......heh.....
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Jan 09, 2008, 07:24 AM	#16 (permalink)
Billum256 Diamond in the Rough Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Middle of Nowhere Posts: 357 Thanks: 4 Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts Credits: 9,936	Re: Women in Society I'm perfectly fine with women holding power in the working world. I beleive that they can do the jobs just like a man could. I will say that I don't think they should be body builders but thats just because it looks nasty in my opinion. When it comes to intelligence I believe that it all depends on the person but overall were equal. __________________ 98% of AO members are yaoi or lollicon fans. If you are part of the 2% that are not, copy and paste this into your sig Sig By Me "We're all sinners in the hands of the loving God"
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Jan 09, 2008, 06:34 PM	#18 (permalink)
lebasiara Live and feel the music Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Here and there... Posts: 1,003 Thanks: 11 Thanked 19 Times in 17 Posts Credits: 16,979	Re: Women in Society I like this thread and yes this is an interesting debate... And on this topic I fall on the two positions: 1. I agree that we (women) have to offer to society more than babies, food and cleanning the house. I believe that we are more useful and strong than most ppl think we do (yes guys... and you'll have to admit that) anyways... however I also think on number 2. Because we are not anymore spending time with our children (and that would apply for the men too... (no I don't have any kids yet)) we are not being there to comfort them when they need us... becuse wome are working... and this is the majority... the ones that are raising the kiddos are: friends of the school or street, the baby sitter, the grandpa or gandma or any other person but mom and dad... I mean it is good for women to work and stuff... but they also need to not forget that they do not only work outside.... but also inside the house.... giving the most important thing that the kids are lacking on the present day... some quality time of mom... (and dad) __________________ Awesome sig Yasmine ^_^ I appreciate it thank you very much ^_^ $C:\Documents and Settings\MARA\My Documents\My Pictures\Anime room\sigs\music_sig1 mia ^_^.jpg$ I wish for a hundred dollar bill rain...
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Jan 12, 2008, 02:08 PM	#21 (permalink)
Lasura Angelic Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: In a Demon's Arms Posts: 1,872 Thanks: 56 Thanked 34 Times in 31 Posts Credits: 49,619	Re: Women in Society Well I would rather stay at home and not work at all and just rise children and do housework... That would be just great! But I'm afraid it won't happen and I don't find that a good thing. Because it just shows how bad the situation is- we have to work hard all our lifes, both parents just to be able to survive. We NEED to earn money. Evenn if I was ready to live in the country, grow my own food and make my own clothes etc. I couldn't- you still have the rent... bla bla... you get the point. And children barely see any of their parents... it's just sad... I remember how I myself crawed to be together with my parents... I was ready to do everything. I was the best, quietest, nicest child ever... just because I was afraid that my mother wouldn't take me with her to work if I misbehaved... It's just sad I find... So you could say I'm one of the people who think that mothers should stay at home. But not because they are doing something wrong to the society with working, but because they are needed at home.... Otherways, I really don't see how a woman working could be bad... And I find it just great that woman thesedays can get the best education, and are treated the same as men. Especially after I almost have read "The Mill on the Floss", which deals with the education problem (she points out that girls sometimes are capable at something more than men). So we get the people who really are the best at their proffesion in their places... Diversity and equallity are very good things of course. ^^ It's all good, but... children need to see their parents more than 4 hours a day... __________________ My recommended fanfic: "Dreamer" by Scourge
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Jan 12, 2008, 02:23 PM	#22 (permalink)
Corvus Otaku Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 302 Thanks: 11 Thanked 31 Times in 30 Posts Credits: 15,244	Re: Women in Society If you want to know the importance of women in society read The Handmaid's Tale by Margret Atwood. Clearly women are important (so long as they stick together) to society and irreplacable ( I mean just look at how backwards that society is... I'm a guy and it makes me sick to my stomach; the way women are treated in there.) As far as women working goes let them if they choose to do so... just don't ever forget about kids (should you have any); that goes for both parents. Meaning that sometimes don't get only the nicest things get the things that work... half the brandname foods you get in stores are the same things repackaged with different labels.. . Seriously what women do is amazing (not to discredit guys in any way) They uphold political ties between themselves and their judgmentive freinds while taking care of the kids pulling weight around the house that isn't theirs cleaning up after "men" who are actually boys in most respects (at least when compared to the unseen tasks of women.) Then to top it all off some of them feel the need to work... something's gotta give. I'm not saying thatour society has it the worst (I mean we're western civilization everything we touch would be considered gold in some parts of the world but... a definite check of how well we respect our women in society is in order (that goes for the women themselves too.) __________________ ... and join my rebellion against time. http://www.animefever.org/ref/ref.ph...animefever.org
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