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Thread: The World Grows Angry @ God!

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    Newbie loknkey is off to a good start loknkey's Avatar
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    Re: The World Grows Angry @ God!

    If God were ta create such a world again, as u've mentioned, our personal freedoms would have ta b limited; there's an old sayin', "Everythin' has a price." If u want eternal bliss, u must b willin' ta sacrifice choice. Is that the coin of exchange that u r willin' ta make?
    Why would our personal freedoms have to be limited? Isn't God powerful enough to create a world in which freedom could exist without suffering, even if we cannot imagine such a world? There are only two answers. Yes or No. If the answer is yes, then God is responsible for the suffering in this world. If the answer is no, then obviously God cannot be all-powerful.

    Just to clarify, this argument is not intended to remove all responsibility from humans. Humans are responsible in as much as they can control their own actions, just as God is.

  2. #34
    Àddïctëd tø |ăüghïñg :) Sonny Sunshine Champion, Volcano Champion, Aquarium Sprengischen Champion, Spiderman Web of Words Champion, Look Alive Champion iluvmyloser is off to a good start iluvmyloser's Avatar
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    Re: The World Grows Angry @ God!

    I would never get mad at him..b/c my religion and an accident that happened years back, Im kinda thankful he helped us out ^^. There are good and bad people in this world, but god will only help the good, I mean god is only doing stuff for a reason. Like they say. He is all powerful.^^ As for the bad people..there is a god..that sees it All.
    Yeah, Bye.

  3. #35
    Leave me alone, fanboys! rematche is making a name for themselves rematche is making a name for themselves rematche's Avatar
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    Re: The World Grows Angry @ God!

    Quote Originally Posted by loknkey View Post
    Why would our personal freedoms have to be limited? Isn't God powerful enough to create a world in which freedom could exist without suffering, even if we cannot imagine such a world? There are only two answers. Yes or No. If the answer is yes, then God is responsible for the suffering in this world. If the answer is no, then obviously God cannot be all-powerful.

    Just to clarify, this argument is not intended to remove all responsibility from humans. Humans are responsible in as much as they can control their own actions, just as God is.
    your ideal of a world is reeeaaaalllyyyy boring...everything's perfect. then there's no point of doing anything since we are all perfect in everything. then what's the point to existing then.

    that's your own idea of your world and not everyone likes it and everyone has their own ideas as well and you might not even like it. and all of these ideas can be done by our own hands not by god because it's ours not god's. we have the capability and the power to make our own ideal world because god knows that already, why do you think god didn't do anything in the first place. besides we can't even comprehend what perfection is and it's beyond our human capability hence we can't have that. for a fact we are just humans...mortals capable of being good and evil by our own choice. but for me, i would just prefer the world it is now, it may not be be all good or bad but just normal like us and because it's for the humans and by the humans.
    YYYEEEEAAAAAAHHHHH!!!

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    Re: The World Grows Angry @ God!

    I'm not exactly sure what you mean, Rematche. The original question was whether or not God is responsible for suffering. I believe he is, although humans are responsible too in their own way.

    Let me ask you this....

    If someone knowingly causes something to occur, and has the power to change this occurance, then is this person responsible for what happens as a result?

    If your answer is yes, then please explain how God can be both omniscient, omnipotent, and still not responsible for the suffering in the world. It is logically impossible. If your answer is no, then please provide your own definition of responsible.

  5. #37
    Leave me alone, fanboys! rematche is making a name for themselves rematche is making a name for themselves rematche's Avatar
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    Re: The World Grows Angry @ God!

    Quote Originally Posted by loknkey View Post
    I'm not exactly sure what you mean, Rematche. The original question was whether or not God is responsible for suffering. I believe he is, although humans are responsible too in their own way.

    Let me ask you this....

    If someone knowingly causes something to occur, and has the power to change this occurance, then is this person responsible for what happens as a result?

    If your answer is yes, then please explain how God can be both omniscient, omnipotent, and still not responsible for the suffering in the world. It is logically impossible. If your answer is no, then please provide your own definition of responsible.
    too complex huh? i'll give you time understand it...
    my answer is no...in the first place who made the sufferings of men? men of course, after all men is the only being who caused and created suffering. hence if you caused it then it would be logical to fixed it. why should you ask an omniscient and omnipotent god to fixed it? god didn't do anything, god just made life. besides with out suffering then what's point of living? like i've stated earlier, the world needs good and evil because it's what define man. we are not made to be perfect, hence we cannot exist in a perfect world but a world of balance between good and evil.
    YYYEEEEAAAAAAHHHHH!!!

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  7. #38
    Mage of Eternity Joe Mage is making a name for themselves Joe Mage is making a name for themselves Joe Mage's Avatar
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    Re: The World Grows Angry @ God!

    Some very valid points, Rematche. Ta elaborate more on what Rematche has already stated; has God(s) created sufferin'? Inna way, yes, but as Atomik has already stated, He is only responsible for mayb 10 or 20 percent of the sufferin' in the world, if that. Usually this is caused by natural disasters or diseases or somethin'. But much like wit predators, these incidents r apart of the balance in our world. The vast majority of sufferin', of Mankind, in the world is caused by Mankind, the perverbial "make ur own bed, u lie in it" so ta speak. And Loknkey lemme ask u this, Let's say that u've this Omnipotent power that follows u around that can bail u out of trouble whenever u made a choice and got inta trouble, would u have that being bail u out?

    Sanity doesn't exist, it's just an excuse cooked up by crazy people to justify their actions. My myspace page: www.myspace.com/joemage

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    Re: The World Grows Angry @ God!

    I agree with Joe 100% like I always do as he tends to be correct. Having an all powerful being bailing you out when ever things got tuff or didn’t go your way is like having a reset button on life. If you had this all mighty reset button then you wouldn’t learn from or cherish a damn thing from what ever it is that happened. "To be happy one must know suffering" Quote by: Unknown. Pain and suffering is how we learn, its how everything and every one learns, and it’s from this learning process we learn how to cherish and love the happy moments in our lives and the people we are with. With out pain there can be no joy, with out Hell there wouldn’t be a need for Heaven, with out chaos there could be no order. That’s how the universe works, that’s how it’s suppose to work, that’s how god intended it to work because he knew that’s the only way it would work. Now I believe in the big bang theory, and that everything was once smaller... Much smaller... Smaller then an atom. But like science has shown and says "mater cannot be created or destroyed... I believe that god created this supper element and set our universe into motion as a self sustaining entity that will one day die but will then fuel the growth of other universes as it has been the case for literally god knows how long.
    "MY DEAR... I GIVE YOU THE CAPELLAN CONFEDERATION"
    AND THUS THE WAR WAS STARTED NOT BY GUN SHOT BUT BY WEDDING BELLS

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    Re: The World Grows Angry @ God!

    Quote Originally Posted by loknkey View Post
    I understand what you are saying, but your statements are based on the way things are now. It may be true that in this world there cannot be bliss without suffering. That's still not the point. If God was truly all-powerful, then he would not be limited to certain constructions of the universe, or rules. He could create an infinite amount of different kinds of universes, including one without suffering! God does not need to follow any rules about bliss and suffering. He made these rules! And that's ok. God can create a world of suffering. But let's be clear, he created a world of suffering because he wanted to, not because he had to.
    Quote Originally Posted by loknkey View Post
    Joe Mage,

    Couldn't God have created a world without suffering, without any of the problems you mentioned? Couldn't God have created a blissful universe perfect in every way? Although suffering may seem necessary to us, nothing is necessary to God. He could have created a blissful world AND individuality, free will, appreciation, humanity, etc... So from my humanly perspective, I would say that God should not have created a world full of suffering. If you could create a perfect world in which little children weren't occasionally hacked to death in Africa, why wouldn't you?
    First of all, the world isn't FULL of suffering. You just happen to be focused on every single negative aspect in life. Yes, there are plenty of people who feel they are suffering and there are people who are TRULY suffering, but that's not everyone. Most people find a way to break free from the negativity on their own.

    Without suffering, we will never know bliss; without chaos, there is no order. Without pain, we feel no relief; without migranes, we have no reason for Advil.

    Suffering isn't necessary to us, it's a necessity to keep balance across the universe. God has no control over the balance. He maintains it. Science even proved that the universe started as nothingness, was created out of chaos and order was placed, following the creation of stars and planets. Yeah, in religion God is omnipotent, a creator and judges all of humanity by their deeds. BUT... Even gods have their limitations. If God was able to choose to make a world without pain or suffering, we'd have absolutely no free will. He would make all of our choices for us! Do you really want that? To be an automaton, a being who only follows orders? NOT ME!! I appreciate the world for what it is. Why? Because, I'm human and I can be thankful for what I have, the experiences I've gone through (be them good or bad) and the things I've learned resulting from which.

    I know a thing or two about suffering. I've seen things most people don't see until they're 35! But, at the same time, I had nobody to blame for my suffering but myself. Not God, not any other human being. Myself. It was my choices, my decisions that made me suffer and it was my choice to end that suffering. God gives us free will to learn from experience and to truly understand what it feels like to feel peace/bliss and comfort. If we were born in to a world that had no suffering and we had no free will, we couldn't truly appreciate the world for what it is.

    Even if God created a world where there is no suffering AND we got to keep free will, SOMEONE would ruin it for everybody else. His free will could get him in to trouble and he'd be the first person to cause suffering. (Now why would he want to repeat the whole Garden of Eden incident again?) Besides, according to Christian belief, there IS a world without suffering! Too bad you have to DIE to go there, LOL. So, you keep fantasizing about a world with no suffering. All that will do is make you suffer. Blame your god for your faults, for your decisions in life and your suffering. You'll soon find that it's YOU who has the key to the door of happiness and you'll find that if you lose that key, it takes FOREVER to find it again!

    Personally (judging from your previous statements), I think that your problem isn't with God. It's with the world. In that case, you should do something to make it a better place. That's why we were created. So we could learn to find peace on our own and to try to make this world a better place for ourselves and future generations to come. God has done his job. He's created the world, kept it from crumbling and has given us the knowledge (actually, more like let us keep it after we stole it from the tree) to ensure that we can live on our own, without constantly asking God to do things for us. It's up to us to make sure that we live in peace. It's up to us to break free from what is considered negative and turn it in to something positive. It's up to us to learn to be one with ourselves, eachother and the universe in order to achieve peace.

    When you go to Denny's and your order is messed up, do you blame the waitress/cook, or do you blame the guy who founded the company or built the resturaunt? When your house is broken into and your belongings are stolen, do you blame the human who took the time to kick in your door and loot your house, or do you blame the police for not sitting in front of your house 24/7? If you get shot and you're bleeding to death, do you blame the guy who attempted to take your life, do you blame yourself for walking through a bad neighborhood, or do you blame God?

    You're human. You're given a gift: free will... It's up to you how you live life, it's up to you to decide whether or not you're gonna try to be happy or suffer and it's up to YOU to make the world a better place. There are six billion of us and only one god. Don't you think his job is hard enough without people like you breathing down his neck about how you think he's doin' a sh*tty job?! Learn to grow on your own or continue to suffer on your own. It's times like this I don't worry about whether or not there is a God, or why prayers aren't answered. If I was God, I wouldn't answer to your prayers; especially if you're gonna be ungrateful for what you have in life...


    And to iluvmyloser... If your god only helps good people, then your god isn't one that I wanna be cool with. God is supposed to love all his children/creations equally, unconditionally and indiscriminately. INCLUDING bad people. Bad people are simply good people who've been confused or are seen with a misconstrued view. I used to be considered a pretty bad guy, so I know how it is to be looked at by Christians who say things like, "You need Jesus," or "You'll be in Hell before you know it," and I don't think that's how God wants people to treat one another. If he shows unconditional love and acceptance toward all humans and we're created in HIS image, then shouldn't we follow suit?? They're not bad people, just misunderstood.
    Last edited by atomik_sprout; Aug 14, 2008 at 06:36 AM. Reason: Typographical Errors


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