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Thread: The World Grows Angry @ God!

  1. #41
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    Re: The World Grows Angry @ God!

    Quote Originally Posted by atomik_sprout View Post
    Now, I've noticed a lot of comments goin' 'round in these religious debates about God and what-not. Comments like, "How come god doesn't stop the bad people from coming in to life?" and "I'd rather have Jesus than God," or "Why would god allow me to live through this bullsh*t??" Then there's the ever famous, "Chuck Norris is god!!" LOL, that last one's a joke.

    Either way, no matter how you slice it; people are angry at God. Now, I'm no Christian, but I was raised as one, so I've spent 18 years of my life in church, bible study and other various Christian learning retreats. I know my stuff and I think that those of you who claim to be Christian, but only accept Jesus, completely denying the fact that God is the same guy, or those of you who just completely blame all the hardship in your life on God need to really consider finding new religion or just read more deeply in to your scriptures.

    Why are more and more people becoming increasingly angry at God? Why is it that when something goes awry, or if someone just can't cope with life anymore, they always point the finger at God, instead of taking responsibility for their actions? Why are certain 'Christians' shunning God, but accepting Christ? That's like saying you're only 'half-christian' or a psuedo-believer.

    Without Chaos there would be no Order and vice versa! Why do people think that God is so f*cked up for allowing sin to exist in the world? Isn't Good and Evil, God and The Devil pretty much Yin and Yang?

    Can anyone answer these questions truthfully?

    God lets people make thier own choices... one way or another. The thing that I understand is that the way my life has been... I know there is a God. He's let me make my mistakes. Those that blame God acknowledge he exists, but do not understand him. That's my take.

    Far be it for me to be anything special, when the only special thing I desire with me, is the special person I share my gifts with.

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    Re: The World Grows Angry @ God!

    In the past, Christianity was something at it's time seen as blasphemy and heresy against Judaism. People such as the Romans, Sadducees, and Pharisees became enraged at how the people became so moved by one man, Jesus. It was either you were with Jesus or not.

    The things is with Christianity they kept getting persecuted. For example, during the Roman Emperor Nero's reign. He had several executions of Christians on the spot. He was even seen as crazy. The thing that tops all of his other exploits is when he burned Rome and blamed on the Christians.

    In the Dark Ages, people had no hope to look forward to. People were to the point where the ideas of education, history, or culture were almost to the point of extinction. The Church was there to help ease the pain and suffering of the commoners and give them a sense of security.

    For me, it has really hasn't been great for me being a Christian. Most of the times, I don't base my decisions from a spiritual perspective. If it weren't for my parents, I wouldn't even attend Mass. I have never once thought that if I do this or that I won't go to heaven. Unfortunately, my parents are Catholic and I guess I was just forced to follow in their footsteps.

    On the news, I remember hearing about people being angry with God. For instance, the people affected by 9-11 are always complaining to God about taking their loved ones away from them. Even Hurricane Katrina, people are bickering about how God took away their homes.

    In the end, I just cannot comprehend how people can be so angry with a being (God) who hasn't been really proven to exist. As human beings, I think it's usually in our nature to blame anyone but ourselves. We always want to avoid any confrontation or allegations against us. Sometimes, for some people, using scapegoats is their specialty. I think it's sad when people sink so low as to blame or punish others who are innocent because of their own misfortunes.

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    Re: The World Grows Angry @ God!

    too complex huh? i'll give you time understand it...
    Well, my argument is simple...

    1) God is the creator of all things, so God created suffering.
    2) He who causes something, is responsible for its occurence.
    3) Therefore, God is responsible for suffering.

    So what exactly do you disagree with? Do you believe that God is not the creator of all things? Or that responsibility does not follow cause?


    He is only responsible for mayb 10 or 20 percent of the sufferin' in the world, if that
    Why only 10 or 20 percent? Didn't God create 100% of existence?

    Even when humans cause suffering, it is only because God created them with the ability to do so. Since God is the ultimate cause of everything, God is ultimately responsible for everything. However, there is one point I do agree with you on. I do not think that God is obligated to create a world without suffering. Obligation implies a duty to comply to a moral standard, but God can have no standard. For nothing is right or wrong unless God deems it so anyways.


    Let's say that u've this Omnipotent power that follows u around that can bail u out of trouble whenever u made a choice and got inta trouble, would u have that being bail u out
    Probally not, unless I could use this power to stop war or something.

    If this is your point....that without making mistakes, we can't really learn or grow. I agree. But it doesn't have to be this way. Not saying that God should have created the world differently, just that he could have. So if God could have created this world differently, doesn't that make him responsible for everything that occurs?
    Just as our ability to choose makes us responsible for our actions?


    God has no control over the balance.
    Interesting. So you do not believe that God is omnipotent? Are you saying that there are universal laws that even God must adhere to?

    So, you keep fantasizing about a world with no suffering. All that will do is make you suffer. Blame your god for your faults, for your decisions in life and your suffering. You'll soon find that it's YOU who has the key to the door of happiness and you'll find that if you lose that key, it takes FOREVER to find it again!
    You're reading too much into my statements. My beliefs are based on logical reasoning, (for better or for worse) not because I'm unhappy or need someone to blame. And I've never said that any human, myself included, is not responsible for their actions.

    do you blame the human who took the time to kick in your door and loot your house, or do you blame the police for not sitting in front of your house 24/7
    If the police knew that the robber was going to break in, had the power to stop him but didn't, and even made the man into a robber, then yes, I would blame the police.

    Let me ask you this? Do you blame Hitler for all the jews that died in the Holocaust? He didn't personally kill them, so according to your logic, he shouldn't be blamed. Also, do you think that because Hitler is to blame for the Holocaust, that all the guards who did kill his victims aren't to blame? Of course not. Similarly, both God and humans are to blame for the suffering in this world. (assuming that God exists and we have free will)

  6. #44
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    Re: The World Grows Angry @ God!

    Quote Originally Posted by loknkey View Post
    Well, my argument is simple...

    1) God is the creator of all things, so God created suffering.
    2) He who causes something, is responsible for its occurence.
    3) Therefore, God is responsible for suffering.

    So what exactly do you disagree with? Do you believe that God is not the creator of all things? Or that responsibility does not follow cause?
    Here's the prob wit that theory, God gave us Free-will. U seem ta b neglectin' that fact. Most of the sufferin' that is caused in the world isn' caused by God, but by Ppl. So what u're sayin' is that we're not responsible for our actions, God is? And another major flaw in ur arguement is the fact that u r tryin' ta make somethin' that's very complicated, simple. There's r no simple answers ta a question like this.



    Why only 10 or 20 percent? Didn't God create 100% of existence?
    Yes he created 100% existence, but not 100% of sufferin'. Again it's ppl, not God who usually created sufferin'. Tryin' ta place the blame on God seems like a cop out. It's much easier ta blame some1 else, than ta except the blame urself for ur own actions.

    Even when humans cause suffering, it is only because God created them with the ability to do so. Since God is the ultimate cause of everything, God is ultimately responsible for everything. However, there is one point I do agree with you on. I do not think that God is obligated to create a world without suffering. Obligation implies a duty to comply to a moral standard, but God can have no standard. For nothing is right or wrong unless God deems it so anyways.
    God is ta blame for our havin' Free-Will, but what happens after isn' up ta God, but us. Sure some hardships r unavoidable, like my cancer, but most hardships r caused by the decisions that we make. It's what allows us ta b free-minded individuals. Yeah, I my gettin' cancer was unfortunate and an unforseen incident, but I chose ta fight it and survive. That's what it means ta have Free-Will, ta make decisions; ta learn and grow. There's an old sayin', "it's not the destination, but the journey along the way that matters most."

    Probally not, unless I could use this power to stop war or something.
    Then u've missed the point completely.

    If this is your point....that without making mistakes, we can't really learn or grow. I agree. But it doesn't have to be this way. Not saying that God should have created the world differently, just that he could have. So if God could have created this world differently, doesn't that make him responsible for everything that occurs?
    Inna word, No. Again we r responsible for our own actions, it seems ta me that u're tryin' ta simplify things; ta make it a Black and White issue. Unfortuately life's not that simple and nothin' is so Black and White. If we would've never left the Garden of Eden, we would've never found indepenence and Freedom. By allowin' sufferin' God has allowed us ta learn that there r consequences for our actions and has allowed us ta learn from our mistakes and grow. Think of God as a teacher, who's tryin' ta carefully guide us through life and teach us how ta b responsible. He's here ta help, but not do for us. We would learn nothin' in the Perfect world that u desire, we would have no individuality or independence. We would haveta rely on God for everythin', we wouldn' learn ta think for ourselves.
    Just as our ability to choose makes us responsible for our actions?
    Which is it; R we responsible for our actions or is God? U can' have it both ways u know.



    You're reading too much into my statements. My beliefs are based on logical reasoning, (for better or for worse) not because I'm unhappy or need someone to blame. And I've never said that any human, myself included, is not responsible for their actions.
    Mayb not, but that's how u're comin' across. The way that u're makin' ur point makes it seem like u're blamin' God for our actions and decisions. That everythin' that causes sufferin' in the world can b laid squarely at God's feet. Nevermind that we're independent, individualy minded, free-willed beings and/or 'cause we r; that it's God's fault 'cause we r. I'm not sayin' that this is what u're sayin', I'm sayin' that's how u're comin' across.



    If the police knew that the robber was going to break in, had the power to stop him but didn't, and even made the man into a robber, then yes, I would blame the police.
    If the police had prior knowledge and the power ta stop that robber, but didn'; then the Police r completely ta blame for their incompetence. However, the police didn' force the guy ta become a robber, he chose that on his own. Only he is ta blame for that. He still had a choice, even if it wasn' much of a one.

    Let me ask you this? Do you blame Hitler for all the jews that died in the Holocaust? He didn't personally kill them, so according to your logic, he shouldn't be blamed. Also, do you think that because Hitler is to blame for the Holocaust, that all the guards who did kill his victims aren't to blame? Of course not. Similarly, both God and humans are to blame for the suffering in this world. (assuming that God exists and we have free will)
    U can' really compare what Hitler did ta what God has given us. Hitler ordered the takin' of the freedoms and the very lives of the Jews, whereas God gave us Free-Will and independence. Hitler lived a life of extremes and created imbalance, whereas God created life and way for us ta learn and grow. By that token, Hitler is responsible for the deaths of the Jews, whereas God is only ta blame for us thinkin' for ourselves; not the sufferin' that we cause. Blamin' God for the sufferin' that we cause, is like Blamin' the U.S. for the Holocaust, 'cause the U.S. had the power ta stop it, but didn'. God created life and gave that life Free-Will, so that it could learn and grow. What a life chooses ta do along the way isn' God's responsibility, but that life's. Lemme ask u this; let's say that u have a child whom u've tried ta raise ta the best of ur ability. That u've done everythin' that u could've done possible ta raise him ta do the right thing. However, he decides; later in his life; ta go out one day and rob and kill a man. R u responsible for ur child's actions? Should u b held accountable for what he's done?

    Sanity doesn't exist, it's just an excuse cooked up by crazy people to justify their actions. My myspace page: www.myspace.com/joemage

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  8. #45
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    Re: The World Grows Angry @ God!

    Quote Originally Posted by loknkey View Post
    Well, my argument is simple...

    1) God is the creator of all things, so God created suffering.
    2) He who causes something, is responsible for its occurence.
    3) Therefore, God is responsible for suffering.
    1: Man created suffering just like man created alcohol and crystal meth!!
    2: God didn't cause sh*t! We do a good enough job on our own...
    3: Man has always been held responsible for thier actions. Karma's a bitch and in most cases, people tend to get what they deserve.


    Quote Originally Posted by loknkey
    So what exactly do you disagree with? Do you believe that God is not the creator of all things? Or that responsibility does not follow cause?
    I believe that you're reading too much in to what we've been tryin' to tell you. That's what I believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by loknkey
    Why only 10 or 20 percent? Didn't God create 100% of existence?

    Even when humans cause suffering, it is only because God created them with the ability to do so. Since God is the ultimate cause of everything, God is ultimately responsible for everything. However, there is one point I do agree with you on. I do not think that God is obligated to create a world without suffering. Obligation implies a duty to comply to a moral standard, but God can have no standard. For nothing is right or wrong unless God deems it so anyways.
    BZZZ! WRONG! We weren't created with the ability to do much wrong, it took LOTS of sweet-talk from a conniving snake to get us to make the first decision that would ultimately change the course of mankind! (You've never really gone to bible study, have you? I don't even believe in Christianity/Judiasm and I know all this stuff!) And y'know, God DID have a try at making a world without suffering and look what happened there. Now it's blocked off by an angel with a flaming sword! Good job, Mankind!!! Now you have to DIE to go to the new suffering free world (AKA: Heaven).


    Quote Originally Posted by loknkey
    Probally not, unless I could use this power to stop war or something.
    You're failing to see the point...

    Quote Originally Posted by loknkey
    If this is your point....that without making mistakes, we can't really learn or grow. I agree. But it doesn't have to be this way. Not saying that God should have created the world differently, just that he could have. So if God could have created this world differently, doesn't that make him responsible for everything that occurs?
    Just as our ability to choose makes us responsible for our actions?
    Could have and should have are practically the same thing. "Well, I'm not sayin' you should have brushed your teeth because your breath stinks, I'm sayin' that you could have brushed them, because your breath stinks," It's all the same thing! Tomato Tomato/Potato Potato!

    Quote Originally Posted by loknkey
    Interesting. So you do not believe that God is omnipotent? Are you saying that there are universal laws that even God must adhere to?
    I'm saying that omnipotence has it's limitations too! It took six days to create the world we live in and on the seventh, God slept in like a teenager on spring break! Omnipotence isn't what people believe it is or should be.

    Quote Originally Posted by loknkey
    You're reading too much into my statements. My beliefs are based on logical reasoning, (for better or for worse) not because I'm unhappy or need someone to blame. And I've never said that any human, myself included, is not responsible for their actions.
    I'd sure like to see where this "logic" is comin' from. Because, to me, it sounds an awful lot like you're unhappy about somethin' that's made you hella angry with God.
    Quote Originally Posted by loknkey

    If the police knew that the robber was going to break in, had the power to stop him but didn't, and even made the man into a robber, then yes, I would blame the police.
    HAVE YOU EVER HAD YOUR HOUSE BROKEN IN TO BEFORE??? That's hardly ever the case!! There's no way in hell that the police would do something like that and NOBODY knows when a house will be broken in to!! Believe me, I know! My house has been broken in to once and if we had a heads-up, I coulda hid my PS2!!

    Quote Originally Posted by loknkey
    Let me ask you this? Do you blame Hitler for all the jews that died in the Holocaust? He didn't personally kill them, so according to your logic, he shouldn't be blamed. Also, do you think that because Hitler is to blame for the Holocaust, that all the guards who did kill his victims aren't to blame? Of course not. Similarly, both God and humans are to blame for the suffering in this world. (assuming that God exists and we have free will)
    First of all, I think it's pretty f*cked up that you're using HITLER in comparison with someone/something in the class of GOD status! Second, NO! I don't blame just Hitler, I blame Nazis, I blame Germany for goin' with it and I blame Jews for not fighting hard enough! I blame humanity for all of that. God has nothing to do with the choices a man--be him timid or tyrant--makes. You're logic is twisted and you obviously haven't read anything that Joe, Rematche, Scourge or myself have been saying with consideration, because you seem to attack with the same notion but with different words. Your problem is that you can't seem to accept the fact that the world is the way it is out of necessity.


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    Re: The World Grows Angry @ God!

    Oh my god!! He just does not get it or is chousing to completely ignore what we have been saying, most likely because its not what he wants to hear. Why god?! Why?! I blame you god!!....... Yeah, you see how idiotic and childish that all sounds when I use the "god controls every persons action like a midnless pupit lodgic"?
    "MY DEAR... I GIVE YOU THE CAPELLAN CONFEDERATION"
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    Re: The World Grows Angry @ God!

    I don't know if it is just me or i hope it's just the way you posted the word or you r choice of words seemed off. accidents>>> let's go to the etymology or meaning of the base word. " something that happens by chance," then "mishap." >>> soemthing out of our control not necessarily soemthing we choose but God gave humans the ability to decide and the God why me attitude or God get me out of this will really not help since not all people were raised in the same environment which is a big factor. Whether we want to or not, there will be bad or good people making actions or chossing to do things that will impact everyone around that a small drop of water will cause a rippling effect, but God doesn't like have a joystick for the entire human race and control the game pad from where he stands. He lets us decide what we want.

    Maybe i do have a different opinion because of what had happened to mea a few years ago and how i was raised and my religion. What ever bad consequence that happens to us because of our own choice is not God's doing but our own. We know about rewards and consequence and to live in a world where it is perfect do you think humans will have the ability to grow if it were not for obstacles or choices or problems we encounter.

    No you can say i am not one of those who is angry at God , I am grateful and thankful that I am able to shaare a life with my family and friends and see the beautiful things around me no matte how big or small they are.


    ** note not at the ones who posted above me but @loknkey
    Last edited by PhoenixSara; Aug 14, 2008 at 07:52 AM. Reason: added note to post
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    Re: The World Grows Angry @ God!

    Joe Mage, thank you for not resorting to insults as some of the others have done. I appreciate your civility.

    Here's the prob wit that theory, God gave us Free-will. U seem ta b neglectin' that fact. Most of the sufferin' that is caused in the world isn' caused by God, but by Ppl. So what u're sayin' is that we're not responsible for our actions, God is? And another major flaw in ur arguement is the fact that u r tryin' ta make somethin' that's very complicated, simple. There's r no simple answers ta a question like this.
    I'm not saying that we aren't responsible for our actions. I'm only saying that God is responsible for his actions, as we are responsible for ours. Free will doesn't remove all responsibility from God, because he knows what we will choose anyways. God knew that Hitler would do what he did, even before he created him. So God must have wanted Hitler to act as he did. Everything is part of God's plan, right?

    I'm not angry at God, and I'm not trying to remove any blame from myself. I'm just trying to figure things out, so they make sense.

    Which is it; R we responsible for our actions or is God? U can' have it both ways u know
    Why not? To use the Hitler example again. Isn't both Hitler and the nazi guards responsible for the death of the victims? What about the people who funded the Nazis, or the people who could have stopped it but didn't. Aren't they all responsible?

    If the police had prior knowledge and the power ta stop that robber, but didn'; then the Police r completely ta blame for their incompetence. However, the police didn' force the guy ta become a robber, he chose that on his own. Only he is ta blame for that. He still had a choice, even if it wasn' much of a one.
    It was just a hypothetical statement, because I was using it as an analogy for God.
    You say that the police are responsible because they knew the robber was going to break into the house and didn't take action. For the sake of consistency, shouldn't God also be responsible, since he knows what will happen and has the power to stop it too?

    Blamin' God for the sufferin' that we cause, is like Blamin' the U.S. for the Holocaust, 'cause the U.S. had the power ta stop it, but didn'. God created life and gave that life Free-Will, so that it could learn and grow. What a life chooses ta do along the way isn' God's responsibility, but that life's. Lemme ask u this; let's say that u have a child whom u've tried ta raise ta the best of ur ability. That u've done everythin' that u could've done possible ta raise him ta do the right thing. However, he decides; later in his life; ta go out one day and rob and kill a man. R u responsible for ur child's actions? Should u b held accountable for what he's done?
    If the US knew what Hitler was going to do, and could have stopped him, then yes, the US is partly responsible for the Holocaust. If you knew your child was going to go kill someone, and didn't stop him, then yes, you are partly responsible for your child's actions. God knew what we would do, he created us knowing what we would do, he could have changed it but he didn't. So how is God not responsible, when under the same conditions, we are? Doesn't this seem inconsistent to you?

    Oh my god!! He just does not get it or is chousing to completely ignore what we have been saying, most likely because its not what he wants to hear. Why god?! Why?! I blame you god!!....... Yeah, you see how idiotic and childish that all sounds when I use the "god controls every persons action like a midnless pupit lodgic"?
    Better not waste any more of your time with me then....
    Last edited by loknkey; Aug 14, 2008 at 08:45 PM.

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