+ Reply to Thread
Page 8 of 13 FirstFirst ... 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ... LastLast
Results 57 to 64 of 101

Thread: The World Grows Angry @ God!

  1. #57
    Poultry Projectile Cannon Scourge is making a name for themselves Scourge is making a name for themselves Scourge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Oceanside CA
    Posts
    1,297
    Thanks
    476
    Thanked 171 Times in 152 Posts

    Re: The World Grows Angry @ God!

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixSara View Post
    I was trying to state a point that free will is something that others should not blamed nor God on this topic, excuse me sir.

    In as much as God gave us free will to choose we still make our own choices whether it is bad or not is my point here. restraint on certain things makes us use our judgement which can be clouded by a few things like past occurence or emotion or psychosis.....I end my point here thanks*** we are liable for our own actions whether we want to acknowledge the reward or consequesnce
    Now that I agree with. Sorry if I misinturprited in what you were saying, but yes. That I would have to agree. People should be held acountable for their own action and not blaim god for something that happened to them or some one else, no matter how bad it is.
    "MY DEAR... I GIVE YOU THE CAPELLAN CONFEDERATION"
    AND THUS THE WAR WAS STARTED NOT BY GUN SHOT BUT BY WEDDING BELLS

  2. #58
    Newbie loknkey is off to a good start loknkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    49
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts

    Re: The World Grows Angry @ God!

    This seems to be our argument as it now stands...please correct me if I missed something.

    We agree that if someone knows that something is going to happen, and has the power to stop it, then they are responsible for whatever occurs. Since God is omnipotent and omniscient, according to the former conditions, it seems he would be responsible for everything that happens, since he knows everything and has the power to stop everything. However, your point was (unless I missed something) that God has a good reason for allowing suffering, because otherwise we would be mindless puppets. So to summarize your point....

    God is not responsible for suffering, because he has a good reason to allow suffering.
    God's reason to allow suffering is this....so we can learn and grow, and so we can be free minded indivduals.

    Am I right so far?

    And here's my point...When we do something for a reason, it is because we are expecting a certain outcome to result from our actions. (if that, then this...ie... If I work hard, then I will get a promotion) We depend on the causal links that occur in our universe. However, we might imagine that there is some universe in which this causal link is different (ie..If I work hard, cheese grows out of my ears) Of course this is impossible in this world, but since God is omnipotent, then we might be able to imagine him creating such a world. So when we say that someone has a good reason for something, we are assuming that they must comply to the causal links in this world. But what if we could choose the outcome, rather than relying on causal links? For instance, geting life-saving medication for a child, might be a good reason to steal from a pharmacy, if there were no other options. But what if we could get the medication without stealing? Would we still have a good reason to steal, if we could get the medication some other way? Now to apply this to your argument....God allows suffering so we won't be mindless robots and so we can learn. This seems like a good reason, but doesn't God have other options? It seems possible that God could create a world in which cheese grew out of people's ears as a result of working hard. So it also seems possible that God could create a world in which we were not mindless puppets, we could learn and grow, and there still is no suffering. Otherwise, he is not truly omnipotent. Since God has unlimited options, he cannot have a good reason, as in the example of stealing from the pharmacy.

    Sorry, if that was hard to follow. Thanks for reading. Hope it made sense.

  3. #59
    Mage of Eternity Joe Mage is making a name for themselves Joe Mage is making a name for themselves Joe Mage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    In the end, it doesn' really matter.
    Posts
    907
    Thanks
    26
    Thanked 47 Times in 44 Posts

    Re: The World Grows Angry @ God!

    Quote Originally Posted by loknkey View Post
    This seems to be our argument as it now stands...please correct me if I missed something.

    We agree that if someone knows that something is going to happen, and has the power to stop it, then they are responsible for whatever occurs. Since God is omnipotent and omniscient, according to the former conditions, it seems he would be responsible for everything that happens, since he knows everything and has the power to stop everything. However, your point was (unless I missed something) that God has a good reason for allowing suffering, because otherwise we would be mindless puppets. So to summarize your point....

    God is not responsible for suffering, because he has a good reason to allow suffering.
    God's reason to allow suffering is this....so we can learn and grow, and so we can be free minded indivduals.

    Am I right so far?

    And here's my point...When we do something for a reason, it is because we are expecting a certain outcome to result from our actions. (if that, then this...ie... If I work hard, then I will get a promotion) We depend on the causal links that occur in our universe. However, we might imagine that there is some universe in which this causal link is different (ie..If I work hard, cheese grows out of my ears) Of course this is impossible in this world, but since God is omnipotent, then we might be able to imagine him creating such a world. So when we say that someone has a good reason for something, we are assuming that they must comply to the causal links in this world. But what if we could choose the outcome, rather than relying on causal links? For instance, geting life-saving medication for a child, might be a good reason to steal from a pharmacy, if there were no other options. But what if we could get the medication without stealing? Would we still have a good reason to steal, if we could get the medication some other way? Now to apply this to your argument....God allows suffering so we won't be mindless robots and so we can learn. This seems like a good reason, but doesn't God have other options? It seems possible that God could create a world in which cheese grew out of people's ears as a result of working hard. So it also seems possible that God could create a world in which we were not mindless puppets, we could learn and grow, and there still is no suffering. Otherwise, he is not truly omnipotent. Since God has unlimited options, he cannot have a good reason, as in the example of stealing from the pharmacy.

    Sorry, if that was hard to follow. Thanks for reading. Hope it made sense.
    No they r not responsible for what occur, they're responsible for their own inactions in attemptin' ta stop it. My point was that, who's ta say that God hasn' attemped ta stop it in His own way? He doesn' haveta exert direct action ta have an influence over somethin'. By indirectly gettin' involved, He could Aid others w/o controllin' or interferin' wit 'em. This is what I think that u're missin', u're tryin' ta lump every action together and put it all on one end of the scale, thus tippin' it over. I could only wish that things were that simple and easy, but they're not.

    As for the second part of ur point, Yes God allows sufferin' so that we can grow and learn, ta become a better species. Yet this is 'cause He is wise, not cause he isn' omniponent. He knows that sufferin' is another way of for us ta learn and grow. U must understand that if u remove sufferin' from the equation, then u create limitations and so thus limit a person's options in life. This is another form of opression, we need sufferin' ta teach us that there r consequences for our actions. So that we can learn wisdom and pass on what we have learned ta the followin' generations, which is Y we have history and we have u ta thank for providin' us wit a perfect example of this wit ur bringin' up of Hitler. As for ur example wit the Pharmacy, these casual links that u speak of, it seems ta me, r the casual links of Man, not God. Of course, except for the cheese part, but I think that u figured that I'm not talkin' 'bout that. A person havin' ta steal medicine, from a pharmacy, ta save a child's life is a failure of Govenment, which is a failure of Man, not God. So this really isn' a very good example. Could God create a world w/o sufferin'? Most likely, but would it b wise? No at all. Could He create a world where u could ooze cheese out of ur ears by workin' hard? Probably could, but would it b wise? I don' think so. Could He create a world where Monkeys could evolve inta a highly intelligent and inquistive species that would come ta dominate their planet? Yeah He could, oh wait He did, lol.

    My point is that jus' 'cause God could create somethin', doesn' mean that He should. This is where God shows much wisdom on his part, He understands that for us ta grow and learn; we need options. Yet He also knows that He must show that for every action that we take, or decision that we make, that there must b a consequence. W/o sufferin', we would not earn the Wisdom that God so enjoys, we would take every decision that we make for granted. Lemme ask u this, would u apprieciate it more if u climb ur way ta the top of a mountain or had a helicopter drop u off up there?

    Sanity doesn't exist, it's just an excuse cooked up by crazy people to justify their actions. My myspace page: www.myspace.com/joemage

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Joe Mage For This Useful Post:

    atomik_sprout (Aug 17, 2008), Scourge (Aug 18, 2008)

  5. #60
    Mathematical!! Bugz Champion, Ant Bully Champion, Chainsaw the childern Champion, 3D Net Blazer Champion, Cricket Challenge Champion, Big Uglies Champion, Body Check Champion, Desktop Fishing Champion, All Star Skate Park Champion, Chuckie Egg Champion, Birdy Champion, Anthrax Jelly Champion, Air Typer Champion, Word Pads Champion, Crash Test Dummy Curling Champion, The Mini Jump Game Champion, Chairlift Challenge Champion, Astroboy vs One Bad Storm Champion, Fight Man Champion, Blot In Hell Champion, Beeku Adventure Champion, Connect2 Champion, Atomica Champion, Cannonball Follies 2 Champion, Bada Boing Champion, BeachDefence Champion, Alkie Kong 2 Champion atomik_sprout has become well known atomik_sprout has become well known atomik_sprout has become well known atomik_sprout's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    2,643
    Thanks
    235
    Thanked 166 Times in 141 Posts

    Re: The World Grows Angry @ God!

    Quote Originally Posted by loknkey View Post
    This seems to be our argument as it now stands...please correct me if I missed something.

    We agree that if someone knows that something is going to happen, and has the power to stop it, then they are responsible for whatever occurs. Since God is omnipotent and omniscient, according to the former conditions, it seems he would be responsible for everything that happens, since he knows everything and has the power to stop everything. However, your point was (unless I missed something) that God has a good reason for allowing suffering, because otherwise we would be mindless puppets. So to summarize your point....

    God is not responsible for suffering, because he has a good reason to allow suffering.
    God's reason to allow suffering is this....so we can learn and grow, and so we can be free minded indivduals.

    Am I right so far?

    And here's my point...When we do something for a reason, it is because we are expecting a certain outcome to result from our actions. (if that, then this...ie... If I work hard, then I will get a promotion) We depend on the causal links that occur in our universe. However, we might imagine that there is some universe in which this causal link is different (ie..If I work hard, cheese grows out of my ears) Of course this is impossible in this world, but since God is omnipotent, then we might be able to imagine him creating such a world. So when we say that someone has a good reason for something, we are assuming that they must comply to the causal links in this world. But what if we could choose the outcome, rather than relying on causal links? For instance, geting life-saving medication for a child, might be a good reason to steal from a pharmacy, if there were no other options. But what if we could get the medication without stealing? Would we still have a good reason to steal, if we could get the medication some other way? Now to apply this to your argument....God allows suffering so we won't be mindless robots and so we can learn. This seems like a good reason, but doesn't God have other options? It seems possible that God could create a world in which cheese grew out of people's ears as a result of working hard. So it also seems possible that God could create a world in which we were not mindless puppets, we could learn and grow, and there still is no suffering. Otherwise, he is not truly omnipotent. Since God has unlimited options, he cannot have a good reason, as in the example of stealing from the pharmacy.

    Sorry, if that was hard to follow. Thanks for reading. Hope it made sense.
    You're totally misinterpreting what I, Joe and Scourge have all been sayin'. You keep forgetting one important thing... and that's BALANCE! We suffer in this world because if we didn't, we wouldn't know true bliss. There are wars in this world so we can truly understand peace! Tyrants and criminals are placed in this world so when we finally can be rid of them, we can truly know security and safety.

    God didn't just say, "You're gonna suffer for a damn good reason.. My own selfish reasons," God doesn't operate like that. However, God does need to keep balance and we have to learn to understand that balance. God doesn't just turn us loose in to a world full of suffering so we can perpetually feel horrible. God shows us suffering so we can learn how to make it on our own. THAT'S THE REASON WHY WE HAVE FREE WILL!!! We are given the gift to either sit back and suffer, watch the world crumble, or try to take steps toward happiness and do something good for the world. Free will doesn't simply mean that without it, we'd be robots. It means that without it, we wouldn't know how to learn, grow and be happy/stable creatures.


    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Mage View Post
    No they r not responsible for what occur, they're responsible for their own inactions in attemptin' ta stop it. My point was that, who's ta say that God hasn' attemped ta stop it in His own way? He doesn' haveta exert direct action ta have an influence over somethin'. By indirectly gettin' involved, He could Aid others w/o controllin' or interferin' wit 'em. This is what I think that u're missin', u're tryin' ta lump every action together and put it all on one end of the scale, thus tippin' it over. I could only wish that things were that simple and easy, but they're not.

    As for the second part of ur point, Yes God allows sufferin' so that we can grow and learn, ta become a better species. Yet this is 'cause He is wise, not cause he isn' omniponent. He knows that sufferin' is another way of for us ta learn and grow. U must understand that if u remove sufferin' from the equation, then u create limitations and so thus limit a person's options in life. This is another form of opression, we need sufferin' ta teach us that there r consequences for our actions. So that we can learn wisdom and pass on what we have learned ta the followin' generations, which is Y we have history and we have u ta thank for providin' us wit a perfect example of this wit ur bringin' up of Hitler. As for ur example wit the Pharmacy, these casual links that u speak of, it seems ta me, r the casual links of Man, not God. Of course, except for the cheese part, but I think that u figured that I'm not talkin' 'bout that. A person havin' ta steal medicine, from a pharmacy, ta save a child's life is a failure of Govenment, which is a failure of Man, not God. So this really isn' a very good example. Could God create a world w/o sufferin'? Most likely, but would it b wise? No at all. Could He create a world where u could ooze cheese out of ur ears by workin' hard? Probably could, but would it b wise? I don' think so. Could He create a world where Monkeys could evolve inta a highly intelligent and inquistive species that would come ta dominate their planet? Yeah He could, oh wait He did, lol.

    My point is that jus' 'cause God could create somethin', doesn' mean that He should. This is where God shows much wisdom on his part, He understands that for us ta grow and learn; we need options. Yet He also knows that He must show that for every action that we take, or decision that we make, that there must b a consequence. W/o sufferin', we would not earn the Wisdom that God so enjoys, we would take every decision that we make for granted. Lemme ask u this, would u apprieciate it more if u climb ur way ta the top of a mountain or had a helicopter drop u off up there?
    Thank you!! Thank you SO MUCH!!!

    I've been tryin' to get that point across since this debate started! Just because you have the ability to do something different, it doesn't mean that it's necessary, nor is it wise. Just as Joe has previously said, "just cuz God could create something, doesn't mean he should." Saying you could is like saying you SHOULD. "I'm not sayin' you should, but you COULD use a clean pair of socks." Doesn't that sound like an implication of sorts? Like a half-assed request? Saying a god could've done somethin' differently is like you're walkin' up to God, grabbin' him by the collar and sayin', "Make me happy, dammit!!!"


  6. The Following User Says Thank You to atomik_sprout For This Useful Post:

    Scourge (Aug 18, 2008)

  7. #61
    Devil's Advocate TaurusDemon23 may be famous one day TaurusDemon23 may be famous one day TaurusDemon23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nowhere, Yet Somewhere....
    Posts
    1,531
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 45 Times in 41 Posts

    Re: The World Grows Angry @ God!

    Goddamn, what a topic! Goddamn.....heeheehee......
    *ahem*
    We could just stop playing the blame game all together and each own up to the terrible things we know we did and call it good.......Buuuuut, that's half the fun of doing something bad in the first place, right? Letting everyone suspect everyone else beside you, neh?

  8. #62
    Newbie loknkey is off to a good start loknkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    49
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts

    Re: The World Grows Angry @ God!

    No they r not responsible for what occur, they're responsible for their own inactions in attemptin' ta stop it. My point was that, who's ta say that God hasn' attemped ta stop it in His own way? He doesn' haveta exert direct action ta have an influence over somethin'. By indirectly gettin' involved, He could Aid others w/o controllin' or interferin' wit 'em. This is what I think that u're missin', u're tryin' ta lump every action together and put it all on one end of the scale, thus tippin' it over. I could only wish that things were that simple and easy, but they're not.
    It just seems so black and white to me. Can you give an example in which a human would NOT be responsible for his actions, when he had complete knowledge of what would occur, and could easily change the situation? Under such circumstances, I can't think of why a person would not be held responsible. If you could think of a good example, then I would change my mind about this issue. For any example to be a suitable comparison, the person must know and understand exactly what is going to happen. He must also be able to change what will occur without any negative effects. The reason for these two conditions should be obvious. God is omniscient and omnipotent, so any example must include these two very important aspects.

    The pharmacy analogy wasn't meant to point out an evil of the world, just to demonstrate the link between responsibility and the power to choose. I only meant that when other options are available, certain actions cannot be easily justified. Since God has infinite options, his actions are very difficult to justify. That is the point I was trying to make. I guess I didn't explain it very well in my last post.

    Most likely, but would it b wise? No at all. Could He create a world where u could ooze cheese out of ur ears by workin' hard? Probably could, but would it b wise? I don' think so.
    Why wouldn't it be wise? Couldn't God make it wise for cheese to come out of our ears? I know that sounds silly, but it's a serious hypothetical question. God determines what is wise and what's not. So couldn't he make whatever he wanted wise? Couldn't he let us learn and grow without suffering? He could I think, not that he should. Whether he should or shouldn't is a whole different argument.

    Please ask your self why we must have suffering to learn, grow, have freedom, etc... Why does suffering inspire growth? Why is it that overcoming obstacles makes us stronger? Is there just some natural order to the universe that causes this to be so? I'm trying to dig deep here. As deep as we possibly can go. Why are things the way they are? Isn't it because (if you are a theist) God created this natural order? God didn't create suffering because he wanted us to grow and learn. He created us to learn and grow as an occasional result of suffering! God is not bound by any natural order. He can create universes we can't even imagine! So why must God create suffering in order to avoid being oppressive, or any of the things you mentioned? That would be confining the power of God to the limits of human imagination.

    You're totally misinterpreting what I, Joe and Scourge have all been sayin'. You keep forgetting one important thing... and that's BALANCE! We suffer in this world because if we didn't, we wouldn't know true bliss. There are wars in this world so we can truly understand peace! Tyrants and criminals are placed in this world so when we finally can be rid of them, we can truly know security and safety.
    Well I apologize. I made sense of it the best I could. Perhaps it would help me if you could present your argument in a more formal format with premises and a conclusion. To respond to your objection....Why is it that we need wars to understand peace? Why must we suffer in order to experience bliss? If you can unswer these questions, then maybe you will understand my point a little better.

  9. #63
    Femmebot Rehab Colt Crouse Champion, Bookworm Champion, Hangman Champion, Connect 2 Champion Peach_follows has become well known Peach_follows has become well known Peach_follows has become well known Peach_follows's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Friendly Fridley
    Posts
    1,477
    Thanks
    124
    Thanked 140 Times in 121 Posts

    Re: The World Grows Angry @ God!

    Quote Originally Posted by loknkey View Post
    . Since God has infinite options, his actions are very difficult to justify. That is the point I was trying to make. I guess I didn't explain it very well in my last post.



    Couldn't God make it wise for cheese to come out of our ears? I know that sounds silly, but it's a serious hypothetical question. God determines what is wise and what's not. So couldn't he make whatever he wanted wise? Couldn't he let us learn and grow without suffering? He could I think, not that he should. Whether he should or shouldn't is a whole different argument.

    I know I'm new to this debate... but I just wanted to throw in my couple of pennies, if I may. I think you are trying to hard to understand a God we are not capable of totaly grasping. You said yourself, that God is omniscient... We are not. So why are you trying so hard to get why God allows things to be what, and how they are? You can't!

    This is why you will hear in many churches... to "Let go and let God" to "Trust him, and never doubt". We are not capable of being on his level.

    You say God determines what is wise and what is not? How do you know that? God knows everything... and can do anything... That is your agument correct? So, think about what you've learned. Think about what you know to be true. Think about your ethics, and moral code. Once you've determined whats right and wrong, what makes sense to you... How likely is it that you'd change your mind? The real question is... Once you know that something is right... and that it makes sense.... aren't you bound by that? So maybe God did create natrual order... That doesn't mean he isn't bound by it. He is... because he knows everything... and he knows that natrual order makes sense. Just because you can do what ever you want... Doesn't mean you would do what makes no sense to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by loknkey View Post
    .
    Why is it that we need wars to understand peace? Why must we suffer in order to experience bliss? If you can unswer these questions, then maybe you will understand my point a little better.

    What is your favorite food? Why is it your favorite? I'm guessing you don't eat it everyday, right? I'm sure if you did, it would not be your favorite food... after a while you would be used to it... Maybe even get sick of it. Certainly, if you ate your favorite food everyday, you wouldn't appreciate it as your favorite.

    If everyday was quiet.... we would not appreciate silence.

    If we just lived in bliss and peace, we would not have the ability to appreciate it. If god would have created us to NOT appreciate... then we would not appreciate GOD either. I'm sure he COULD have created us and the world we lived in just like that too... But... he KNEW that didn't make sense.
    ... Not Ever Again...

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Peach_follows For This Useful Post:

    atomik_sprout (Aug 21, 2008), Joe Mage (Aug 20, 2008)

  11. #64
    Mage of Eternity Joe Mage is making a name for themselves Joe Mage is making a name for themselves Joe Mage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    In the end, it doesn' really matter.
    Posts
    907
    Thanks
    26
    Thanked 47 Times in 44 Posts

    Re: The World Grows Angry @ God!

    Quote Originally Posted by loknkey View Post
    It just seems so black and white to me. Can you give an example in which a human would NOT be responsible for his actions, when he had complete knowledge of what would occur, and could easily change the situation? Under such circumstances, I can't think of why a person would not be held responsible. If you could think of a good example, then I would change my mind about this issue. For any example to be a suitable comparison, the person must know and understand exactly what is going to happen. He must also be able to change what will occur without any negative effects. The reason for these two conditions should be obvious. God is omniscient and omnipotent, so any example must include these two very important aspects.
    Then I guess those humans who, by law, r incapable of controllin' their own actions shouldn' b committed ta an insane asylum; by ur reasonin'; we should jus' go on a execute them. I mean, u say that they're responsible for they're actions; nevermind the fact that there r experts who say differently. And it seems ta me that u're bein' single-minded 'bout this subject so much that u completely missed the example that I did provide. I have stated emphatically that God is responsible for our Free-Will, but not the actions that we commit as a result of it. That is alot like blamin' a parent for a child's actions after he has grown and moved out on his or her own. U have also missed what I said 'bout how God could've alerted the Allies ta the Jews' plight in his own way.

    And yet again, it seems, ta me u want God ta b a police force for us; ta hover over us and control our very actions, decisions, and Fate. So u don' want Mankind ta decide it's own Fate? Is what u're sayin' is that u want us ta b Automatons?


    The pharmacy analogy wasn't meant to point out an evil of the world, just to demonstrate the link between responsibility and the power to choose. I only meant that when other options are available, certain actions cannot be easily justified. Since God has infinite options, his actions are very difficult to justify. That is the point I was trying to make. I guess I didn't explain it very well in my last post.
    No u didn' and u haven' explained it very well in this one, sry. Again it's not 'bout whether or not God can, but if He should. U're tryin' ta justify why God gave us Free-Will? Ta blame Him for the decisions that we make that brings us sufferin'? If u take the time ta think 'bout it, logically or no, it jus' doesn' make sense. God doesn' want ta interfere in our lives, so that we can guide our own Fates. So He should b blamed for givin' us freedom?


    Why wouldn't it be wise? Couldn't God make it wise for cheese to come out of our ears? I know that sounds silly, but it's a serious hypothetical question. God determines what is wise and what's not. So couldn't he make whatever he wanted wise? Couldn't he let us learn and grow without suffering? He could I think, not that he should. Whether he should or shouldn't is a whole different argument.
    I have already explained why, plz read what I've said 'fore u respond ta what I've stated. U have a very narrow minded view, plz don' take this an insult this is jus' merely based on my observations of ur posts, and u seem ta have difficulty acceptin' others who's views r different from urs. Even ta the point where u even overlook their answers ta some of ur questions. This, in effect, renders ur arguement ineffective and puts others on the defensive as u continue ta badger them wit the same arguement and questions over and over; despite the fact that they've already answered those questions. It's because they haven' answer ur questions inna manner that satifisies u, i.e endin' wit their agreement wit u, u seem ta continue ur bagderin' in an attempt ta get them ta submit; when in reality all that u're succeedin' in doin' is isolatin' urself from the ppl that u r debatin' wit. Of course this is merely how it seems ta me and u may not b, intentionally, meanin' ta come across this way.

    Please ask your self why we must have suffering to learn, grow, have freedom, etc... Why does suffering inspire growth? Why is it that overcoming obstacles makes us stronger? Is there just some natural order to the universe that causes this to be so? I'm trying to dig deep here. As deep as we possibly can go. Why are things the way they are? Isn't it because (if you are a theist) God created this natural order? God didn't create suffering because he wanted us to grow and learn. He created us to learn and grow as an occasional result of suffering! God is not bound by any natural order. He can create universes we can't even imagine! So why must God create suffering in order to avoid being oppressive, or any of the things you mentioned? That would be confining the power of God to the limits of human imagination.
    I have already asked myself these questions and have found my own answers, some of which I have shared wit u. It seems that u're at the impass that I was at when I was younger, u must find ur own answers ta why things r the way they r, much as wit life. These answers cannot b provided for u, really, each person must find these answers on their own. It doesn' mean that, when u find ur answers, u r correct or that every1 must believe as u do. It's all apart of the growth process and that process includes sufferin'. This is how we EARN our wisdom, so that we can become more like God.



    Well I apologize. I made sense of it the best I could. Perhaps it would help me if you could present your argument in a more formal format with premises and a conclusion. To respond to your objection....Why is it that we need wars to understand peace? Why must we suffer in order to experience bliss? If you can unswer these questions, then maybe you will understand my point a little better.
    Again Each person, really, must come up wit their own answers ta these questions, but I'll share the answers that I've found on my path in life. As for War and Peace, Peace needs War ta Defend it, War needs Peace ta Define it. They're like 2 sisters who need each other ta survive, w/o one the other dies and existense ends. They support one another and allow existense. Lemme ask u this, why do u think Wars start? How is it that they r started? For what Reasons? When u answer these questions, u will then learn the answer ta why Mankind needs War ta understand Peace. And again, I've answered the 2nd question 'bout sufferin'; w/o sufferin' we limit our options and so thus ourselves. I think that we understand ur point, the real question is... Do u? I think that u need ta reevaluate ur point and do some serious searchin', 'cause I think that u r still in the process of searchin' for the answers ta life and the things that r happenin' in it. Only then will u come ta ur own answers and b able ta understand this thing called "Life" and why we r here.

    Sanity doesn't exist, it's just an excuse cooked up by crazy people to justify their actions. My myspace page: www.myspace.com/joemage

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Joe Mage For This Useful Post:

    Scourge (Aug 19, 2008)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 8 of 13 FirstFirst ... 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Angry
    By NevesElocin in forum Poems
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Nov 14, 2007, 03:35 PM
  2. My World
    By Armadio2 in forum Poems
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Aug 03, 2007, 10:40 AM
  3. Angry generation of teenagers
    By kenchi18 in forum Poems
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Jan 30, 2007, 07:15 PM
  4. Naruto Anime- angry at zabuza fight
    By mechataku in forum The Thread Vault
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: Feb 03, 2006, 06:20 AM
  5. so angry!!!!!!!!!
    By silent_man in forum The Thread Vault
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Jun 15, 2005, 07:09 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts