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Thread: Would life be better without pleasurable reproduction?

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    Re: Would life be better without pleasurable reproduction?

    Quote Originally Posted by divine_punishment View Post
    Usually they were molested or something as a child. That was when they "lost" the power. Now they commit this act, which they view as the most powerful, to get it back.
    Not every child molester or rapist was sexually abused as a child, that example is a far to uncommon one to draw on in support of your argument. But as I said before, why don't they simply physically injure or kill someone rather than rape them? I don't think you're seeing the point I'm trying to make here. They are both examples of power, but one excludes sex and physical pleasure, the other does not. What makes them choose the latter over physically injuring someone with no sex involved with a normal childhood or one that included some kind of abuse other than sexual?
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    Re: Would life be better without pleasurable reproduction?

    First off, let's keep this civil. No name calling, please.

    Here's my post from the thread "Do women make men rapists". divine_punishment is somewhat correct; although I wouldn't say that rapists/molesters get absolutely no pleasure from the acts they commit, that isn't the sole reason nor the one that truly drives them.

    The most common among the FBI's four major categories is the power reassurance rapist. He lacks confidence in his ability to interact socially and sexually with women, and rapes in order to reassure himself of his masculinity.

    He fantasizes of a consensual relationship with his victim and may act as if he's her lover, giving her complements or asking if he's pleasing her. He may even apologize for his actions. This is the predator who sometimes ends up in newspapers as "the gentleman rapist."

    In contrast to the power reassurance rapist, who has doubts about his manhood, the power assertive rapist attacks as a means of asserting his masculinity. He believes women should be used for his gratification.

    "The key to understanding him is his macho self-perception," Hazelwood writes in his book, "The Evil That Men Do."

    The anger retaliatory rapist wants to hurt, punish and humiliate his victims. He hates women in general, or a specific group of women, and seeks to get even for some real or perceived injustice.

    Rapists in both the anger retaliatory and power assertive categories tend to strike impulsively.

    What most people know as a sexual sadist is classified by the FBI as an anger excitation rapist — the least common but most violent of rapists. He is highly ritualistic and his complex fantasy usually involves a master-slave relationship. He seeks complete control over his victims and derives pleasure from their suffering.

    His crimes are methodically planned.

    Two other categories investigators come across are opportunistic rapists and those who participate in gang rapes.

    The opportunistic rapist is already committing another crime — maybe a burglary — and seizes the opportunity to rape the victim. He's frequently drinking or on drugs at the time.

    A gang rape operates on a pack mentality and often results in serious physical harm to the victim. While the rapists feed off the behavior of their fellow predators, there is always one person leading the pack.
    This is taken from the official FBI profile of serial rapists (got it from Profiler: Serial Murder and Rape on Courttv.com if you want to read more). The thing to notice here is that none of these strike solely out of sexual desire. Thus, it doesn't matter what a woman wears, or how she looks, as long as she fulfills the rapists' desire for acceptance, reassurance, power, control, or revenge.
    Raping someone for power rather than say, beating them to a bloody pulp is a way to humiliate and demean them. Physical injuries can heal quite easily; the emotional scars caused by rape may never go away.
    sig by Pyro Psycho

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    Re: Would life be better without pleasurable reproduction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Exoparadapsyphobia View Post
    Not every child molester or rapist was sexually abused as a child, that example is a far to uncommon one to draw on in support of your argument. But as I said before, why don't they simply physically injure or kill someone rather than rape them? I don't think you're seeing the point I'm trying to make here. They are both examples of power, but one excludes sex and physical pleasure, the other does not. What makes them choose the latter over physically injuring someone with no sex involved with a normal childhood or when that included some kind of abuse other than sexual?
    Because some people are insane. Sad, true. The people who pysically beat people derive pleasure from that, too.

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    Re: Would life be better without pleasurable reproduction?

    And just how many of those creatures are stupid enough to try and wipe out their own kinda do to their feelings?? But that is not the topic here. You asked would it overwhelming benefit or cripple our society if sexual activities were to become no longer physically enjoyable? The answer would be no, it would in the long run distroy our society. Once you got rid of all the diseases that plage us you would still have the problem of power. If you have an extreamlly dominate male he will want to spread his seed. The only way around that is to take control over their minds. Because if they want to do it without permission they will take what they want. So you would have the same problem that you have now. Regaurdless if the sex is pleasurable or not. The human race has been killing and doing as they pleased to each other as long as they have been here. So it would cause the mighty human race to fall. And as far as the function of reproduction, well even with all your examples. We are the ones with that ability to feel the things that we do during sex. So your point in that is mute.

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    Re: Would life be better without pleasurable reproduction?

    I'm not asking that any of you submit to my perspective that sexual pleasure is the sole motivator for rapists. I'm simply trying to achieve the goal of getting you to recognize it as one, as divine_punishment seems so reluctant to believe. In any case, the way Gren presents it rapists are male supremicists who get a kick out of reinforcing their condescending attitude towards women with slightly varying degrees of motive and absolutely no interest in physical pleasure. But my retort is this can be accomplished entirely without sexual abuse, inflicting horendous physical injury alone on someone is enough to humiliate and demean them and to excercise a level of power that the victim recognizes. It can all be sucessfully accomplished without sex, that's my point. So then why do they choose to include sex in their activities? The only answer to this is because it is physically enjoyable. I don't care about how many angles 0-360 you view this from, sex at its core is about physical pleasure and that's why men do it plain and simple. Haven't any of you ever heard of Ockham's Razor?
    Last edited by Exoparadapsyphobia; Oct 21, 2007 at 06:46 PM.
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    Re: Would life be better without pleasurable reproduction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Exoparadapsyphobia View Post
    I'm not asking that any of you submit to my perspective that sexual pleasure is the main motivator for rapists. I'm simply trying to achieve the goal of getting you to recognize it as one, as divine_punishment seems so reluctant to believe.
    I'm not saying that they don't feel pleasure. Of course, they do! It's sex! I'm just saying that they aren't in it entirely for the pleasure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exoparadapsyphobia
    I don't care about how many angles 0-360 you view this from, sex at its core is about physical pleasure and that's why men do it plain and simple. Haven't any of you ever heard of Ockham's Razor?
    I happen to believe that - at its core - sex is about love.

    Have you heard of the anti-razors by Immanuel Kant, Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz, and Karl Menger?

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    Re: Would life be better without pleasurable reproduction?

    i think that's lame not having "good" sex...

    sex is something beautiful and wonderful and magical and the goodness shouldn't be taken away just becuz some (even though it's most) abuse it...


    ^_^ trust, it is good stuff that stuff...

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    Re: Would life be better without pleasurable reproduction?

    You asked would it overwhelming benefit or cripple our society if sexual activities were to become no longer physically enjoyable? The answer would be no, it would in the long run distroy our society. Once you got rid of all the diseases that plage us you would still have the problem of power. If you have an extreamlly dominate male he will want to spread his seed. The only way around that is to take control over their minds. Because if they want to do it without permission they will take what they want.
    Nice job contradicting yourself mate, you yourself said that our instinct to reproduce is not strong enough to force us to mate in the event that sex was no longer pleasurable. Also as I stated reproduction is not the motivation of rapists in today's society. So what makes you so suddenly sure instances of rape would remain as constant as they are if reproduction were to become the only reason for mating? What makes you think humans wouldn't simply continue on their course of peaceful social persuasion in order to have the opportunity to pass along genetic material as even dominant males do? Males can be overly dominant without forcing their mates into co-operation, they can still use peaceful persuasion but become much more adroit in order to win out over their competition.
    The only way around that is to take control over their minds.
    Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about, and humans are more likely to take that course in this society than any other. You shouldn't assume this when you say that the world would be brought into a state of apocalypse by sex craved, power hungry men when the population growth in America is at it's lowest because American males are so reluctant to reproduce even now when sex is so pleasurable. I don't see how considering the fact you can conclude that men would be driven mad by the instinct to "spread their seed" in the absence of pleasurable sexual sensations.

    So you would have the same problem that you have now. Regaurdless if the sex is pleasurable or not. The human race has been killing and doing as they pleased to each other as long as they have been here. So it would cause the mighty human race to fall. And as far as the function of reproduction, well even with all your examples. We are the ones with that ability to feel the things that we do during sex. So your point in that is mute.
    I think this is the last post of yours I'm going to reply to, they're so bafflingly incoherent that I'm having a lot of trouble deciphering what exactly your trying to get across and I'm wasting time doing this when I could be replying to more literate participants in this discussion. It appears as if you are still refusing to put any thought into your retorts as you are incorrect when you say we are the only ones able to feel physical pleasure during sex. Plenty of mammals on this planet feel pleasurable sensations during sex, but no one tells them about sex and how to do it, yet they know to do it. Why is this? It is because of their reproductive instincts urging them to mate. No one need tell them, it's hard coded into their brains just like it is in ours. Is that example enough for you?
    Last edited by Exoparadapsyphobia; Oct 21, 2007 at 06:51 PM.
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