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Thread: Does Big O deserve a 3rd season?

  1. #73
    Otaku ScionofDestiny may be famous one day ScionofDestiny may be famous one day
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    Re: Does Big O deserve a 3rd season?

    I read Plato's Republic and many Bible texts that helped me understand parts of the plot and dialogue of the Big O - the screenwriters relied on both to help them with the plot and dialogue of the Big O.

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    Newbie Dark Mako Fiend may be famous one day Dark Mako Fiend may be famous one day Dark Mako Fiend's Avatar
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    Re: Does Big O deserve a 3rd season?

    how so? can you give me a few examples?

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    Re: Does Big O deserve a 3rd season?

    Wait, wait, wait! So you're saying that Big O is tied in with Plato? Please be sure to make sure I can understand what you're talking about.

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    Re: Does Big O deserve a 3rd season?

    Yeah, I tried taking a philosophy class in college, but had to drop out. If you're going to quote Plato at us, you're definitely going to have to give a bit of a philosophy lesson, first. Whatever you do, please make sure to be clear and specific.

  5. #77
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    Re: Does Big O deserve a 3rd season?

    Well... I'll first have to explain Plato's basic theories and then explain their context to the plot of the Big O.

    Plato believed our own reality was based on a standard set down by a higher reality from whence all souls originated. He called the higher reality the World of Archetypes, and then referred to our own reality as the World of Reality.

    In the World of Archetypes; all things which exist are called Forms. Thus there is the Form of Courage, the Form of Dog, the Form of Human, and then the forms of all the different kinds of courage, different dogs, and different individuals among humanity. Everything exists in a state akin to emanationism.

    That which causes the World of Archetypes to exist is the Form of Good. Plato explained this highest of all Forms by means of the Metaphor of the Sun.

    The Metaphor of the Sun...

    Plato explained that everything existed only because the Form of Good existed. It was the Form of Good from which all other Forms emanated or sprung forth. In order to demonstrate this idea, Plato used the Metaphor of the Sun.

    Plato explained that everything that lived did so only because the Sun's rays shined down upon it. The Sun warmed the cold earth. Sun yielded fruits and vegetables. Sun nurtures life through it's warmth. The Sun is what scatters the dark and makes everything clear to see for all.

    Plato held that the Form of Good did much the same thing as the Sun; hence, he used the Sun as such a metaphor to describe the difficult concept that is the Form of Good. The Form of Good does everything for the World of Archetypes that the Sun does for the earth.

    The Analogy of the Divided Line

    Plato next drew a distinction from the World of Archetypes and our own universe.

    Plato held that just as the World of Archetypes existed by virtue of the Form of Good, so did our own universe arrange itself to the pattern set down by the World of Archetypes. Our own universe is thus an imitation, copy, or "fake" which seeks to capture the Forms in physical energy and matter. At the same time, it is an inaccurate copy with many flaws.

    Thus there are two worlds; the World of Archetypes sustained by the Form of Good, and the World of Reality (our universe) which conforms to the standard or organization set down by the World of Archetypes in a rather limited way. Our universe could then be thought of as something of a shadow of the World of Archetypes - and we ourselves are only shadows of our own Forms.

    For, just as the Form of Courage exists in the World of Archetypes, so do the Forms of our families, friends, and ourselves.

    From our individual Forms, there comes a 'mind' which animates the weak matter which makes up our bodies. In this lesser existence, we are but prisoners trapped in a cave that is reality.

    The Allegory of the Cave

    Having been thus imprisoned in a deep, dark cave (our universe), we are now forced to watch the mundane, pointless images that make up our perceivable reality. This is, after all, the only universe that we can remember and, unfortunately, it is our home.

    After awhile, a prisoner may remember some shadow of the world they used to come from and will try to break free. Should the succeed, they will come to the exit of the cave, step forth, and walk into the waiting Sun.

    At first, the Sun (Form of Good) will blind the prisoner. He will only be able to perceive the places in the world outside the cave (World of Archetypes) where the Sun shines the least.

    Over time, the freed prisoner eyes will again accustom themselves to the world from whence they originally came. He will then notice that the Sun is what causes everything in the world outside to exist; from the crops, peoples, and seasons.

    Gleefully, the prisoner will run back into the cave to tell his friends and family about all of the things he has seen and since come to realize. Unfortunately, he will find that his friends will be to distracted with the tedium of the cave (perceivable reality) and will be uninterested, if not violently opposed, in hearing about the real world that exists outside.

    The Context and Results:

    Plato believes that certain individuals are 'philosophers' - people with the virtues or qualities necessary to remember bits and pieces of the World of Archetypes from whence they originally came. It is these 'philosophers' who will become the prisoners who escape from the cave but return to save their friends. Plato believes that only when the people make the 'philosophers' their kings will the people within the cave find true peace within the cave.

    As Plato saw it, knowledge was built within people. Our 'minds' came from a world where all that Is Good and True, Is. As such, all things which come to pass have, in a sense, their "form" in the World of Archetypes. Because we came from that world (our mind which thinks and feels and such), human beings actually already know everything. Studying and experience only helps us remember stuff we already knew - it doesn't teach us anything.

    Also, Plato knew 'philosophers' didn't physically reach the World of Archetypes when they left 'the cave' - that's impossible (our bodies, after all, are matter, thus physical, and exist here and not there) ... what actually happened is that philosophers psychologically remembered the World of Archetypes from when their 'mind' existed within their Form, before it was imprisoned in their flesh.

    Plato viewed that the "meaning of life" was thus: Using knowledge (remembered) to make our world more like the world of archetypes in principle. In reality, our world is naturally imperfect (as are we), but that by aspiring to be like our Forms, we can be good and do right - making our perceivable reality a better place more like the world "above us".

    IN THE BIG O:

    In Big O, we can apply the Analogy of the Divided Line as seen above in the following manner:

    The World Before Forty Years Ago.
    The World After Forty Years Ago.

    With the first being the World of Archetypes (the world outside the cave),
    and the second being the World of Reality (the cave)

    This is where I developed my theory of Paradigm City being a 'model' which conforms to historical and social events which must have occured before the Amnesia hit. Hence, Roger is a clone who negotiates just as the man he is cloned from did (and has Memories of that man implanted in him), Dorothy is an android with memories of the human girl she was modeled after, etc etc...

    An interesting philosophical question would be: Is Roger the same Roger as he was prior to forty years ago, even if he is a clone? I ask, because he has also been implanted with memories of his former self (his Form, you might say) ... the same question can be applied much the same way with Dorothy.

  6. #78
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    Re: Does Big O deserve a 3rd season?

    Wow. That's a lot to digest all at once... I had to read it about 3 times just to figure it out. Once I got it, though, it made sense. I can see how the creators centered some themes around Plato's philosophies, and possible reasons for the existence of Paradigm City in the first place.

    Thank you Sazuka for this awesome signature!

    You're a louse, Roger Smith.

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    Otaku ScionofDestiny may be famous one day ScionofDestiny may be famous one day
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    Re: Does Big O deserve a 3rd season?

    It's a weak connection, but I'd say that Paradigm City exists for the purpose of preserving civilization itself.

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    Otaku Shadow dorothy may be famous one day Shadow dorothy may be famous one day Shadow dorothy's Avatar
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    Re: Does Big O deserve a 3rd season?

    That sounds more like a Megaman game thing. The reasons I say this are, in a lot of Megaman games humans only populate certan areas and avoid others because of unknown dangers. Big O looks like a reverbot I killed in Megaman Legends, Dorothy reminds me of Roll, in the second manga Big Ear is reading a newspaper that says "Rockman saves city", alot of robots have Megaman related abilities, and Saldarono looks like Dr. Wiel.
    So I think it's more Megaman tie-ins than Plato though his thoerys seem to fit the show.
    As for a 3rd season, no more Megaman tie-ins please.
    shadows what are they.

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