Thread: Big O: What REALLY happened?

Originally Posted by Skyward Arches

I don't know... I read somewhere that the series creator actually had a different idea in mind, but that he didn't get enough episodes to make it. Sort of like how things worked for the end of season 1. I'm not entirely sure what to think, though. Could the final episodes have been a dream or a vision, like the first two episodes of the second season?

The second half of the series (Big O II) was co-created by Cartoon Network. Big O was a complete failure in Japan, but it was a complete success overseas. It was intended to end at the first season, but Cartoon Network wanted more episodes and practically forced the director and the entire team to make more episodes. The end result is a mind****ing ending and very crappy animation quality.

You seem to have some of your facts together, but are lacking in others.

(1) Adult Swim made the provisions that, in their contract, they could have Bandai make another two seasons (aka, season three and four) if they so desired it - which doesn't really conflict with anything your saying, exactly, but it is interesting to note.

(2) On the other hand, what you said about everyone being androids is illogical and strictly your own opinion. The creators themselves have openly acknowledged a desire to make a third season, and have also explained that the series itself is open to interpretation, as they never worked out all the plot at one time. What I am saying does conflict with what your saying, and I'm right because I have the creators on my side. If you can make a similar claim, then say so and we'll contend our sources. If not, acknowledge your just stating what you think or what somebody else has told you is true.

(3) A few scenes of R. Roger's being made in a factory is no premesis for you to base your theory, then tell people what's what. Quit infecting other people's minds with your own views unless your prepared to back it up with logical proofs and sources.

(4) Open up your mind a bit and consider the whole of the final act, instead of just the individual bits and pieces. Yes, it is confusing, but if you observe closely you may find that you overlooked many logical holes in the android theory - so many in fact that you'll find not only is your theory not concrete - it isn't even likely.

On a second note:

Big O is based, like so many Japanese anime, on Judeo-Christian themes. Many parts of the plot echo that.

It is also based on Plato's Republic - a 2400 year old book about economics, philosophy, 'military' and political theory.

Lastly, the Big O is based on the 1920's film movie, Metropolis (in fact, there is a red book called Metropolis in the series)

If you want to formulate some decent theories about the Big O, check out one or all of those three sources.

Hmmm... I never actually thought of it that way.... If you rewatch the series a couple of times, you notice new facts. I think Scion's right, there is more to the story that just hasn't been made.

In this case, I have the relief of knowing I'm right - trust me, anything goes. Just like the first season, the end of the second season is open-ended (for much the same reason as the first season was)

So I'm not saying that InnerHell's theory is wrong - what I'm saying is when the creators (like scriptwriter Chiaki J. Konaka) publically announce that the series is open-ended (and thus open to the opinions of the individuals who watch it), then there isn't really much you can do.

On the other hand, I know that InnerHell is wrong about his particular theory because I can logically prove him wrong. In fact, I think I'll do it right now just to further demonstrate my point.

InnerHell's Theory - Everyone in Paradigm City is an android and there are new androids every time the Event starts over.

Okay - now what have you based that on?

Most likely he based it on a few moments of clip in which we see R. Roger's (Robot Rogers) being made in a factory assembly line. Roger himself was viewing memories of Angel Rosewater.

But wait - didn't Gordon Rosewater himself say that memories were unreliable?

Angel Rosewater - How can a woman who is as unreliable as me be a memory?

Gordon Rosewater - Memories are by their nature unreliable. They decompose into deflauderant matter while they are inside people's minds.

This dialogue is the scriptwriter's way of leaving himself an opening for changing the plot and also for warning the audience not to take the following scene too seriously.

Just after the scriptwriter (through Gordon) tells you that memories are unreliable, Roger sees memories that are extremely confusing and make no sense.

Hence, they are deflaudarant matter - most definitely not solid enough to base an absolute theory on.

Also, we already know that Roger was hallucinating from lack of oxygen. While I'm sure those memories have both literal and allegorical meanings, you can't take them too seriously. Especially not right after Gordon Rosewater warns you not to take memories to seriously.

In itself, this doesn't prove InnerHell wrong, but it does challenge his so-called concrete theory.

On the other hand, I can ask a dozen more questions which make InnerHell's theory lose water:

1. If everybody is an android, then why do some of them need to eat, sleep, etc while other androids, like Dorothy, don't need too? Roger needs to eat so he can live, as do many other characters.

2. If they are androids, then why is it Roger has flashbacks of when he was a "tomato" child being forced to view false memories by Gordon Rosewater? Androids don't get older; Dorothy herself states that she (meaning all androids) will always have the same bodies and the same hearts. She then goes on to say that she is not like Roger. If that is true, then how could Roger be an android? If Dorothy is an android, and she points out she is not like Roger because of her heart and body, then how can he be an android as well? .

3. Roger bleeds blood. We see him bleed blood - when he is shot and when he is wounded. Androids don't have blood; they have oil. We see Dorothy bleeding oil. Don't you remember Roger's conversation with Alan Gabriel?

Roger - I'm curious - do you have blood or oil under that skin of yours?

Alex - Show me your blood and I'll show you mine.

Okay - so if Roger bleeds blood, and Dorothy bleeds oil, then doesn't that mean that Roger is a different sort of being than Dorothy?

For the sake of argument - let's call that being human, shall we?

4. So far we've ascertained, as FACTS THAT ARE PROVEN, that Roger eats (so he can live), sleeps, and bleeds blood. So far, we've ascertained that while Dorothy eats, she only does it for the sake of form. We also know that Dorothy doesn't bleed blood - she bleeds oil. I don't know how or even if she sleeps, but we've never seen it so I can't give a conclusive answer on that matter.

Either way, we've made quite a few contrasts between Dorothy and Roger.

AKA - the most popular theory is that Roger and the other 'tomato' children (Schwartzwald, Alex, and maybe Dastun) are all clones of people from forty years ago who had the memories of their old hosts implanted in them.

AKA - as for the R. Roger's being made in the assembly line - it is possible that they are just toy Roger's, like the toy Dorothy doll Angel was playing with. Notice that they have their clothes implanted on them along with the flesh.

Wow. That's enlightening. Maybe someone should start a debate on whether there should be a 3rd season, because it certainly sounds like a lot was left unsaid and unwritten. I'm curious now how it all would end...

Actually, there is a petition for saving the Big O (started by fans) - the link is in my signature.

Chiaki Konaka for one says that if fans want a third season, then there should be a third season. Problem is; no one wants to pick up the tab for the creative effort.

I think a debate would be fun, if someone wants to start it.

If people want to watch the anime again, then they are showing it in order on Adult Swim at 12:30 AM or 1:30 AM (depending on where you live) - so far they are halfway through the first season. The second season will start shortly after that (I think).

Hmmm... I may make a debate thread in the forums in a moment... It'd be nice if we had someone arguing "against" first. There can't be a debate without two sides, you know? I'll work on writing a non-biased intro for the debate...